Back to Index

This article participates on the following special index pages:

Transcript of 'Hot Seat' with Presidential candidate Dr Simba Makoni
Violet Gonda, SW Radio Africa
March 14, 2008

http://www.swradioafrica.com/pages/hotseat180308.htm

Violet: Former Cabinet Minister Dr Simba Makoni announced recently his intentions to contest in the forthcoming Presidential election as an independent candidate. Today we are joined by the Presidential candidate himself on the program Hot Seat. Welcome Dr Makoni?

Makoni: Thank you very much.

Violet: I would like to start by talking about policy issues. There is 80% unemployment, a considerable amount of the population requires food aid, and we have now 100 000% inflation and the erosion of the democratic principles in Zimbabwe . Now what policies would you put in place to reverse this, especially to resuscitate the economy?

Makoni: Firstly, we will remove all the barriers and impediments to normal economic function, to normal business function. A country basically is a mixed economy with a strong private sector and originally a similarly strong public sector with public enterprises that were operating in key areas and our policy thrust will be to remove the impediments that currently bar the normal conduct of business across all sectors. So as investors, business operators, managers can go about with their business with minimum impediments.

Violet: How instrumental will the international community be in resuscitating the economy in your government?

Makoni: Quite clearly there will be need for international support especially in dealing with the immediate crisis. The food crisis, the energy crisis, transport crisis, the health and medication crisis, but for the long term development of this economy - other than normal development assistance - this economy has the capacity to generate its own resources to induce a momentum for growth and development.

Violet: You mentioned that you would remove some impediments that are hampering the development of our economy; can you mention a few, what are some of these impediments?

Makoni: Well government hostility to business is the single most important impediment to our business at the moment, the government is hostile to business, the government mistrusts business, the government imposes rules and regulations and sometimes just structures that impede the conduct - that normal conduct of business. We will have a business friendly environment.

Violet: What about on the issue of privatization of basic services such as education and health, what is your position on that?

Makoni: Well, like I said, already we have a mixed economy. There are public health institutions and private health institutions. There are public education institutions and private education institutions - they are all suffering the same impediment overall - un-informed and hostile interference. We will support, we will facilitate. As I said in my launch statement we will see the national authority enabling and facilitating rather than directing and controlling.

Violet: What will be the changes made to Zimbabwe tax structures?

Makoni: I think it would be premature and ill-advised to give any specifics. But what we will aim to do is make the tax regime supportive of individual and corporate entrepreneurship; tax structures that can encourage the generation of growth and the generation of investment and increased income, whilst at the same time providing for stable and predictable public resource flows. We will not be punitive, we will not be aggressive and quite clearly we will not be oppressive in our tax regime.

Violet: Robert Mugabe has been dealing with some of these issues by printing more money, where will you get the revenue to do all these things?

Makoni: Well I think first of all if you restore productive capacity across the economy particularly in agriculture (and) manufacturing...we nurse the very vibrant tourism industry and the mining industry where there is scope for major investments that can generate substantial resources , It is feasible to generate public resource flows without penalizing business to such an extent that you don't need to print to the extent that you cripple the economy.

Violet: What about your position on subsidies do they help or don't they help, what is your position on it?

Makoni: Focused and targeted subsidies do help in a defined time frame. They cannot be a permanent feature of economic performance and conduct. And so there will be justification for what in other countries call "means testing support" particularly for the most vulnerable of our citizens - that there would be justification for that, but it has to be specifically targeted, it has to be structured to reach the most needy and to address the areas of desperate need like education support, like health support, food assistance. But untargeted and general freebies to ingratiate people do not have a place in a pragmatic and progressive economy.

Violet: Now there has been contention regarding International Monetary Fund economic plans. What is your position on this, are the IMF plans out of contest with Africa or do you agree with it?

Makoni: I don't believe there is one IMF plan. I think the IMF lends advice to different countries in response to their peculiar circumstances and we will engage in the discussions with multilateral and bilateral partners in response to our specific circumstances. But as I said the IMF is not in the kind of crisis support that I talked about which is the area I believe we need the most immediate international assistance.

Violet: What about IMF packages that offer to reduce things like the sizes of government, reduce inflation and also putting a mark on government wages? Now I am asking this because critics have said that if such conditions are undertaken they lead to greater poverty, so what are your thoughts on that?

Makoni: I believe that Zimbabwe has sufficient capacity to formulate and implement its own policies. We need some infusion of friendly support. I can tell you that a study done about two years ago ranked Zimbabwe 95% in policy formulation but 4% in policy implementation. So our problem is not that we can't formulate policy, that we formulate inappropriate policies. Our biggest problem is we don't implement the correct policies that we formulate and we are going to be putting a lot of emphasis in getting timely and effective policy implementations.

Violet: Let's move on to the issue of the land. During the last land reform exercise only less than 15% of women benefited. Now given that the fact that women are 52% of the population and that the land has already been distributed, will your government relook at the pattern of distribution?

Makoni: We must understand that women and men constitute families. This paddocking of citizens does not help. I am quite sure that if we followed the policy that said - land shall be distributed in an acquired and distributed in an orderly, equitable, fair and transparent manner - we would not find any sector or section of our community discriminated against. And we intend to proceed in an orderly, equitable, fair and transparent manner in reviewing; you must understand we are not starting acquisition and redistribution. That's already been done to quite a large extent. It's reviewing what's been done to ensure that it accords with the orderly, equitable, fair and transparent criteria that already constitutes to national policy.

Violet: On that issue of the fairness of the whole reform process, many officials in Zanu PF are beneficiaries of patronage around the land reform. Do you think this was done in a non partisan fair manner of land to the people?

Makoni: Well am not about to classify people. What I am saying is that we will review the conduct of acquisition in redistribution to ensure that it conforms with already agreed national policy of orderly, equitable, fair and transparent. Mind you we already have a number of important reviews on the table. The Rukuni Commission gave out invaluable assessment of the state of acquisition and re-distribution. The Utete Commission added on to the Rukuni Commission and the government itself has commissioned two land audits in the last three years which have also generated a lot of valuable information about the state of acquisition and re-distribution; and also more importantly the state of productive utilization of and non utilization of the acquired land. All those tools will be available to us to review and expedite an orderly equitable, fair, and transparent re-distribution so that we can move on to stimulating production because production and increased productivity are the main objectives of acquisition and re-distribution of land.

Violet: So under this return to the original policy can you explain to our listeners and readers if it will be one person per farm and also what will happen to those who have multiple farms?

Makoni: Obviously if its one person one farm there is no room for multiple ownership. It would be clear.

Violet: What happens to those people with multiple farms, are you going to take those farms away from them?

Makoni : I don't think it's taking away from them. One citizen one farm, or one family one farm. It's a very explicit policy. How can there be room for anything other than one person one farm.

Violet: Will you remove the people who have invaded farms illegally?

Makoni: We will review to conform to orderly equitable, fair and transparent. If they were allocated in an orderly, in an equitable and fair manner according to the guidelines and the regulations stipulated by government, nobody has any worry about their tenure. But you must also understand that at this stage we have not implemented any security of tenure measures on all those people. The government has promulgated a 99 year lease policy which is quite feasible but it hasn't been implemented. So we have to move not only to regularise and rationalise acquisition and re-distribution but speedily to move to establish secure tenure arrangement so that people can proceed to invest in higher production on the land.

Violet: Tell us more about what your policy is on land titles - freehold titles, because in other countries great wealth has been built on freehold titles because it creates value. Some say these 99 year leases are valueless because for example banks wouldn't be prepared to actually lend money under the current land reforms. What do you say about that?

Makoni: Well I can't offer you an individual's policy. We will institute or set up a national authority which will engage in appropriate policy formulation. But let me tell you that when the present government determined that they were going to issue 99 year leases, there wasn't sufficient study and examinations of the pros and cons of the one tenure form against the other. That will be one of the issues that we will wish to engage pretty early on so that we can establish the most appropriate tenure system, and also bear in mind it's not one or the other. You can have a combination of tenure systems and I do know of countries which have combination of tenure systems to suit different conditions and we are going to be engaging those issues rationally and in a very deliberate systematic and well informed way. And some of the work that I referred to - the Rukuni Commission, the Utete Commission, exposed these issues in a manner which had government wanted to be effective in this direction they would have found a basis for proper policy formulation.

Violet: How are you going to also re-introduce this viable commercial farming if we were to ask about the issue of the commercial farmers who were removed from their land, will it also include inviting back some of those commercial farmers who were displaced?

Makoni: Remember existing policy says one Zimbabwean one farm within maximum farm size. We will review who was allocated what, under what terms and conditions on what criteria. But reviving commercial farming is not synonymous with a particular race or colour of skin. This is a national program been undertaken in the context of a non racial national policy.

Violet: Let's move on to the issue of the mining sector. Now some senior politicians are associated in the elicit trade of gold and diamonds and some have taken mining concessions illegally. It is obvious that the only way the country can recover is if it gets its wealth back. What is your specific program to deal with the rampant corruption in the mining sector?

Makoni: There is rampant corruption across all activities of life in Zimbabwe including mining. We are not going to have one policy for corruption in mining; we are going to have a policy to eradicate or at least reduce drastically corruption in every walk of life. But our commitment is to eradicate. We must eradicate corruption in all walks of life.

Violet: But what will you do with people especially those Zanu PF cronies who have profiteered and stripped national assets?

Makoni: We are not going to be targeting anyone specific. Every citizen who has done something that is illegal will be subject to the due process of law.

Violet: Yes, but people will want to hear because there has been rampant corruption in Zanu PF and people like Robert Mugabe have been top of the list. Some say your backers have not been revealed and that there is likelihood that some of your backers might be implicated. If so what will you do as President to ensure that your party will not shelter these criminals?

Makoni: Every citizen will be subject to the due process of the national law without fear or favour or discrimination. We are not going to promulgate laws that are targeted at individuals. We are going to promulgate - but more importantly even at this stage, we have sufficient laws that can cater for all criminal activities. It's just the enforcement and implementation that needs to be beefed up and there will be no targeting of individuals. Every citizen will be subject to the law in the same way.

Violet: Is there any programs in your government plan to address the grievances around the Gukurahundi genocide?

Makoni: We don't have a government yet; we are campaigning to be elected. We are seeking support from the citizens of Zimbabwe on the platform of national re-engagement, national reconciliation and national healing. And that's in that framework, on that platform how we will deal with pain inflicted on any citizen from any action.

Violet: But Dr Makoni people would want to know what sort of program you would have on this particular issue because the issue of Matabeleland has been a soar issue. (Interrupted).

Makoni: I don't have a program Violet because I am not yet in government! And I am not going to formulate an individual program. When I get elected I will constitute a national authority which will lead our country out of pain, out of fear and out of stress and it would be the program of the nation not the program of the individual Simba Makoni.

Violet: But what if members of your present group were implicated in the Gukurahundi massacres?

Makoni: Members of my present what?

Violet: Members of your present group were implicated?

Makoni: I have already said that the laws of Zimbabwe will apply to all citizens without discrimination.

Violet: But Dr Makoni don't you think these are the sort of things that you should also consider right now, because for example it is alleged that Major Kudzai Mbudzi is a ex-Gukurahundi soldier as he was part of the 5th Brigade and he is one of your officials. What's your response to this, don't you think people would want to know?

Makoni: Is that fact?

Violet: So I am asking you. Is it not? Was he not part of the 5th Brigade?

Makoni: No, you have told me it is alleged and I am asking you is it a fact?

Violet: It is said that this is what he did.

Makoni: I believe one of the ground rules of the 5th estate is to deal with facts so I hope you can confirm your facts.

Violet: What if it's found out that he was, what would you do with that. Are you going to find out if he was part of the 5th Brigade?

Makoni: I have already said to you, we are moving on a platform of national healing. We are not going to start introducing discrimination, disparities and particularly separation of our people. We want to heal the wounds of the past. We don't want to exacerbate pain. We don't want to bring people apart again and all issues that have brought pain and separation upon our people will be dealt with in the context of the national healing and national re-engagement program that our national authority will offer to our people.

Violet: But this has never happened before so will your program involve an apology to the people of Matabeleland and reparations for the victims?

Makoni: Well if it has never happened before, does it mean it shall never happen ever?

Violet: So why can't you answer the question, will you do that?

Makoni: Which question Violet?

Violet : Will your program involve an apology to the people of Matabeleland and also reparations to the victims?

Makoni: How the country will heal itself will be the product of the national healing process. Don't compel Simba Makoni to pre-determine how the Zimbabweans are going to re-engage, reconcile and re-unite because that will be contrary to the democratic principles that constitutes our platform. We are moving away from a dictatorship. We are moving away from a few people dictating to the majority. We want an inclusive process that responds to the wishes of the nation of Zimbabwe for re-engagement and healing.

Violet: But if you claim to be national President, you cannot ignore the cries of this significant group of the population, so that is why I am asking that question - specifically about the people of Matabeleland . (Interrupted).

Makoni: But I don't know what suggests to you that I am going to ignore it, all I am saying is don't compel me to pre-determine what must be a national process. Merely because you are the national President doesn't give you the right to decide for people. They give you the opportunity to serve your people in response to their needs. That's very different. If I take your route I'll be a dictator and we don't want dictatorship in Zimbabwe .

Violet: Now let's talk about the media situation in Zimbabwe . Much of the legislation that destroyed the independent media in the country is still in place. There is a suffocated media environment right now which keeps people ignorant and also incapable of making informed decisions. Do you now believe that this was wrong and that your new government will reverse this stance on the media?

Makoni: When you ask, do you now believe, did I not believe before?

Violet: You were part of the government that didn't believe that.

Makoni : The government wasn't made up of clones Violet. The government was made up of individuals of free thoughts. I certainly am one of those.

Violet: So how dedicated are you in creating an environment for the establishment for free independent media

Makoni: I am dedicated to the creation of an environment that offers Zimbabweans in all walks of life freedom under the law of Zimbabwe .

Violet: And what about radio stations such as SW Radio Africa & Studio 7, will they be allowed to broadcast from Zimbabwe under your administration?

Makoni: We will propagate policy that supports constitutional provision for freedom of expression and for freedom of association and freedom of information. We will not take action in respect to a specific enterprise. But we will provide an environment for the provisions of our constitution to be realised.

Violet: Now, what about on the issue of your relationship with Zanu PF. Why did you break up form Zanu PF?

Makoni: Because I wasn't able to achieve what I believed our country needed under those circumstances.

Violet: What did you need to achieve?

Makoni: To renew the leadership of our country.

Violet: In your personal opinion, what were your chances in succeeding Mugabe while you were in Zanu PF?

Makoni: Had the process been opened for that - very good, just as good as to succeed him as President of Zimbabwe.

Violet: So at what point did you realise that you could no longer continue to support Robert Mugabe?

Makoni: When we went off rail in our leadership mission. It wasn't an instant, it's a continuum and this situation didn't just happen overnight, this situation has been evolving and entrenching over a period of years. Some would take it back to 1997 others would take it back to 2000. But this is a continuum and as the situation entrenched and got worse one became more and more convinced that the nature and quality of leadership being given our country was short-changing our people.

Violet: And it's reported that you had a meeting with Mugabe a couple of weeks before you made your announcement to stand against him. What did you talk about?

Makoni: About the crisis facing the nation and the need for new leadership.

Violet: Did you tell him you were standing against him?

Makoni: No I didn't.

Violet: Why not?

Makoni: It wasn't politic and appropriate at that time.

Violet: Is Mugabe under siege in his own party right now?

Makoni: I don't know. I think you should ask him that. I don't know what's happening to him in his party.

Violet: But you've decided to stand against him and several other Zanu PF officials have decided to leave his party. So can you not even give your thoughts on that?

Makoni: I am not standing against anyone. I am just standing for the people of Zimbabwe and I have made this point repeatedly; I am not standing against Mugabe, I am not standing against Tsvangirai or Toungana. I am standing for the people of Zimbabwe .

Violet: But Dr Makoni, do you realise that the people of .

Makoni: It is not my brief to know what's happening to Mugabe and his party. You can talk to President Mugabe and those in his party. They can give you the answers to your questions. I am not in that in that party.

Violet: When you say you are not standing against Robert Mugabe and you are standing for the people, are you aware that people in Zimbabwe are against Robert Mugabe. So if you are not standing against Robert Mugabe who are you representing because the people you are saying you are representing are against Robert Mugabe?

Makoni: Well Violet, I am trying to promote a positive disposition to our lives. A disposition that is stimulated by what is necessary to do that is right, that's why I am saying I am standing for the people and I know the people will want us to move forward positively.

Violet: It appears that your candidature is part of a sophisticated boardroom succession plan; and if we were to consider assessments in the media that say you would be in the run off against Robert Mugabe; and also if we were to consider your confidence in winning given the fact that you have not been a public figure with a constituency and you are appealing to a sub-section of the Zimbabwean voter base - namely the business community, disgruntled Zanu PF power brokers and disenfranchised MDC elements - Would it be safe to say that if a run off did happen, given this kind of support you will be able to force Mugabe to step down?

Makoni: Well first I want to tell you that there will be no run off. We will win a required majority in the first round. Secondly, people have active minds; they do analyses that paddock people in different corners. I am not moved by all those analyses. I am simply standing for the people of Zimbabwe offering myself to serve all the people of Zimbabwe in all their walks of life and stations in life, including the people of Zimbabwe who happen to be members of Zanu PF at the moment and those who are members of the MDC.

But bear in mind particularly that the majority of Zimbabweans had lost interest in politics because it was a futile exercise and they are now mobilised to come back into politics because they have an alternative candidate who stands for the nation. So the analyses of the media and political scientists and others who try to keep our people in different paddocks doesn't accord with the new spirit and the vision that the Mavambo/Kusile movement is about.

Violet: Dr Makoni what would you say to perceptions that say you are good at economic recovery but not on social justice?

Makoni: Whose perception is that and what is it based on.

Violet: Did you ever speak out against oppressive laws and rights abuses - publicly speaking out?

Makoni: But I don't know why one has to be measured by public statements but if they are needed you can follow the public statement I made on the occasions I had the opportunity to do so and I don't believe you would find justification for that statement you have just made.

Violet: Were you in the Politburo at the time when the Gukurahundi was unleashed and the purges after that?

Makoni: When was that?

Violet: In the 80's, in the mid 80's?

Makoni: If you remember in the mid 80's I was Executive Secretary of SADC.

Violet: So did you do anything about the Gukurahundi massacres when you were in SADC to expose what was happening in Matabeleland ?

Makoni: What could I expose that wasn't already exposed?

Violet: Dr Makoni, how many people knew what was happening, outside Zimbabwe , and you had that opportunity to expose what was happening. Don't you think it was important?

Makoni: What I am suggesting to you is that what was happening was in the public glare. There wasn't anything more I could expose that wasn't already exposed.

Violet: Okay. Let's bring it to events that are more recent. Did you condone Operation Murambatsvina that saw the displacement of more than 700,000 people?

Makoni: I did not.

Violet: What about the issue of the housing problems that have been demonstrated after Operation Murambatsvina. What are your specific proposals of addressing these issues?

Makoni: We will launch a national program of renewal and re-engagement economic, productive, enhancement, special services development that will include provision of housing and bear in mind our platform is not that the government shall do everything for the people. The government shall facilitate that the people will do things for themselves including providing housing and other amenities under a supportive and conducive environment with appropriate support mechanisms.

Violet: What about the issue of the green bombers, the youth militia. What are you going to do about this very serious issue where people say that this group of youngsters have been terrorising communities? What will your government do, do you have a policy on the youth militias?

Makoni: I think you need to understand our broad platform. We are talking about national healing and national reconciliation. Any conduct any activity that rips pain on the people will be addressed in the context of our national healing. When we get Zimbabwe working again across all sectors it will be the youth of Zimbabwe that will have gainful engagement that then doesn't leave them idle to be used or misdirected in manners that inflict pain on others in society.

Violet: What about on the issue of elections right now, what is your perception of the electoral system in Zimbabwe and do you think it needs reform?

Makoni: There have been concerns about the integrity of previous elections. We will see how these elections are conducted. If there are still concerns about its integrity then we will certainly need to address those concerns.

Violet: And do you have a final word for our listeners and readers in Zimbabwe . You had said you wanted to speak in Shona - perhaps this is the chance that you have, the time that you have to speak to the listeners and readers in Zimbabwe .

Makoni: Well yes. Quite clearly I would like the people of Zimbabwe to extend their support to me and Mavambo candidates on March 29. I want to assure them that I am nobody's tool, and I am nobody's agent. I wasn't planted by anybody I was moved by the suffering that we are all facing in this country and to offer myself to serve our people genuinely, honestly, not to inflict more pain but to remove the fear that percolates throughout all Zimbabwean life and I say this - I am offering fervent leadership to our people. Not oppression and subjugation.

Ndirikuda kudzokorora kune zvizvarwa zveZimbabwe kuti ndiri kuzvipira kuvashandira kuti tibvise navo, kwete kuvabvisira ivo asi kuti tibvise navo matambudziko ese akanangana nevanhu vedu. Kubvira kushaya chikafu, nzara, kushaya zvekurapiswa nazvo muzvihosipitara. Muzvikoro vana vavane dzidzo yakanaka. Hupfumi venyika yedu usumikire zvakare. Tibvise humbavha nehuroyi urimunyika kuitira utumgamiri uve utungamiri vekushandira vanhu kwete utungamiri vekushandisa vanhu. Ndozvinangwa zvedu tiri Mavambo/Kusile - zuva rabuda. Tinokumbira rutsigiro rwavo pamusi vaMarch 29.

Violet: Thank you very much Dr Simba Makoni.
Makoni: It's my pleasure. You have a good afternoon.

Comments and feedback can be emailed to violet@swradioafrica.com

Please credit www.kubatana.net if you make use of material from this website. This work is licensed under a Creative Commons License unless stated otherwise.

TOP