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Transcript of 'Hot Seat' interview with Wilfred Mhanda of the Simba Makoni formation
Violet Gonda, SW Radio Africa
February 14, 2008

http://swradioafrica.com/pages/hotseat150208.htm

Violet Gonda: Nothing has caused as much controversy recently as the entry into the presidential race by a senior ruling party official and former cabinet minister Dr Simba Makoni. It's reported that some key ZANU PF members are supporting Dr Makoni's candidacy. One of the people involved with Makoni's bid is Wilfred Mhanda, a former liberation war senior commander. He is also one of the people personally responsible for bringing Robert Mugabe to power. Mr Mhanda is the guest on the programme Hot Seat and he is here to set the record straight on a number of issues. Welcome on the programme Mr Mhanda.

Wilfred Mhanda: Thank you Violet.

Gonda: You have not been actively involved in mainstream politics, why now? What's your interest in this?

Mhanda: It's not a question of interests but the circumstances in which we find ourselves in as a nation and as a country. Things have really gotten out of hand and we are all desperately trying to make ends meet and to eke out a living. So it is this which has actually pushed me to see if I could also contribute to the resolution of the crisis that is gripping the country.

Gonda: So who are you representing exactly?

Mhanda: In what terms?

Gonda: Are you representing ZANU PF . . . ? Do you have a political party . . . ?

Mhanda: I am not representing ZANU PF and we do not have a political party and Dr Simba Makoni has just been expelled from ZANU PF. But he has offered himself as an independent candidate for the Presidential elections. And we are supporting him as somebody who is in a position to lead the nation to resolve the crisis. To lead us out of the crisis.

Gonda: But why Dr Makoni as President of your group. Why him in particular?

Mhanda: Firstly, he is the ideal candidate. When we scouted around for someone with a national appeal, a broad national appeal, and also an international appeal we found him to be an ideal candidate for us. At the same time he also happened to have accepted the mantle of leadership for the movement to re-direct and renew the country.

Gonda: So what are the prospects of your group winning given that some believe that those who come from ZANU PF are not elect-able because of their connection with the regime?

Mhanda: If somebody stands up against ZANU PF that means that person is exactly on the same footing as those people who are condemning ZANU PF. Because if you have the courage to stand up and speak out against Robert Mugabe and ZANU PF that means you are no longer in that camp in terms of your aspirations, your ideas and your objectives - they are now consistent with the rest of the people. So that is not a problem at all.

Gonda: So isn't someone like Dr Makoni only against ZANU PF now because he failed to get his nomination in the party?

Mhanda: No, no, no. He accepted the leadership of our group long before the nomination - long before ZANU PF held its primaries. It was long before that when he accepted the call to lead the party and also one should recall that Dr Makoni has in the past stood up for what he believed in. Like for example as Minister of Finance, he clearly articulated and enunciated what needed to be done to get the economy back on course and that took courage for someone to do that. Very few people in ZANU PF have been able to do that.

Gonda: But why did he even attempt to run for ZANU PF if he was intending to run against Robert Mugabe?

Mhanda: He never attempted to run for ZANU PF. Where is that information coming from?

Gonda: Did he not submit his nomination papers for one of the constituencies in Manicaland province?

Mhanda: You mean as a member of parliament. We now gather that CV was forwarded by some other people. He did not appear there personally. He didn't appear there personally.

Gonda: Are you saying Dr Makoni did not hand in his nomination paper and that he was not going to stand as a ZANU PF candidate for the Makoni East parliamentary seat?

Mhanda: I am sure the best person to answer that question would be Dr Makoni himself.

Gonda: So in terms of your support base who in ZANU PF is backing you?

Mhanda: We still going back, you are still going back to the question of who is backing us in ZANU PF. This is for the people of Zimbabwe. The suffering people of Zimbabwe! It has nothing to do with ZANU PF! We don't care who is in ZANU PF! Why do people in ZANU PF have to support us? What we are doing is we are appealing beyond ZANU PF, to the nation as a whole. If those in ZANU PF are happy - so be it.

Gonda: But in his first press conference Dr Makoni himself said there are key elements or key members of ZANU PF that are going to come out and stand for his group. So why is there so much secrecy? Elections are next month; don't you think Zimbabweans deserve to know who the players are - especially the players that are coming from ZANU PF? At least so that people can see how much support he has from within ZANU PF?

Mhanda: Why do we keep going back to showing support from ZANU PF? ZANU PF is an unpopular party! Why do we keep going back to ZANU PF which is hated by the people, as you already said? Dr Makoni has now got candidates who are prepared to support him. They don't have to be from ZANU PF! Where are we getting lost here?

Gonda: But who are these candidates? Where are these candidates?

Mhanda: The candidates will be announced after nomination on Friday.

Gonda: But why haven't people heard anything about these candidates? So far it's been Dr Simba Makoni, Dr Ibbo Mandaza and retired Army General Mbudzi. Why is it taking so long for people to come out and say 'we are standing with this group'?

Mhanda: Do they really have to speak up? Dr Makoni was encouraged and approached by a wide range of people to stand and like I said, why don't you wait till Friday after nomination and then you will find that there are actually people - there are candidates. There are candidates. I for one will be standing in Harare supporting Dr Simba Makoni. But why do I have to go the press to say I am going to stand for him? Let's be patient and wait for Friday.

Gonda: Do you not think at this point in time with elections around the corner people need to know at least who is in this party? In the planning of this whole thing did you approach the different factions in ZANU PF - I will ask about the other groups like the opposition - but I would like to find out if you approached the different factions in ZANU PF - like the Mnangagwa faction and the Mujuru faction?

Mhanda: It's really not a question of approaching them but consultations. Wide ranging consultations were conducted with all manner of people in ZANU PF and outside ZANU PF. The Emerson Mnangagwa faction and the Mujuru faction and there was a consensus that they were opposed to Mugabe standing as a Presidential candidate for ZANU PF. That consensus was there. But there was no one to articulate this disenchantment within the party. Hence the need to have somebody like Dr Simba Makoni to articulate that.

Gonda: So is it true that retired army generals Solomon Mujuru and Vitalis Zvinavashe are supporting your group?

Mhanda: Like I said the best people to do that (comment) will be themselves. It's an assumption to say they are supporting the people. What I can say is at best they are sympathetic but I am not authorized to speak on their behalf to say they support Dr Simba Makoni. They would be the best people to answer those questions themselves. The fact that they haven't come out in the open is that there might be a reason for that.

Gonda: What about the opposition? Why not form a coalition with the opposition

Mhanda: You know there are a number of reasons for that. Here we are going into elections and this grouping has come about through the need to save the country from disaster. The MDC has tried that and from my perceptions it would appear the majority of the MDC MPs are not so concerned about resolving the crisis, getting Mugabe out but getting into parliament and benefiting with the perks associated with that. So you see there are a lot of dynamics that are involved in all this. So if people were candidates for the MDC, all of a sudden you come as a grouping - you don't necessarily have to inherit all those MPs from ZANU PF and the MDC. And they won't necessarily step back for you. That will be very difficult for them to do.

Gonda: If you really want change why don't you join forces with the people who have been asking for this and the opposition has been asking for this from the very beginning, unlikely people like Simba Makoni, who have been largely quiet over the years, while the country has been burning.

Mhanda: Ok you say if we really want change we should be working with those who have been calling for it from the very beginning. What have they achieved in the last nine years?

Gonda: And what have people like Simba Makoni achieved and they were even in decision making positions?

Mhanda: He was not a leader of a political formation. Now he is and we have to judge him after he has stepped into the arena, not before!

Gonda: But were they not in the Politburo, the party's Politburo (decision making body), to do something about what was happening in the country.

Mhanda: As you know in terms of democracy, if you are a minority and you are beaten by the majority you have to conform to the wishes of the majority! I think that is democratic ethics and ethos. So for them to then have to go outside and canvas against a decision taken by the majority it would not be proper. In any political setting that would not be proper. It's like in Cabinet - once a Cabinet decision has been taken you are bound by that protocol.

Gonda: But you must admit that a lot of people are highly suspicious of people who are coming from ZANU PF, and you have been highly critical of ZANU PF in the past. The party has also a history of stuffing ballot boxes. So what make you think that the people you are supporting now from ZANU PF will be any different?

Mhanda: From what I can tell you, the MDC was a creation of ZANU PF. Morgan Tsvangirai himself was a member of ZANU PF! Most of these people were members of ZANU PF. They are breaking away from a rotten party. They are breaking away. So you cannot stop by saying you are ZANU PF, you are so and so. Then you will be reinforcing the polarization which has been taken advantage of by Robert Mugabe to entrench his rule. We welcome anybody who rebels against autocratic rule. Like I said the MDC is a creation of ZANU PF. Most of those people were card carrying members of ZANU PF. Why should it be different with Dr Simba Makoni and others?

Violet: But you must understand, and as I go back again, the economy has been going down especially in the last seven years. 26 000% inflation, unemployment, there is no electricity, no water and food shortages. How committed to change is this group that has come out of ZANU PF when they have not changed things in the past?

Mhanda: For you to be able to change things you need to be able to have the power and capacity to do that. Surely you cannot expect that Dr Simba Makoni - as a single member - in a Politburo of about 44 could have moved things and changed things. He would have needed to win the majority of the Politburo for him to be able to make any decisions. In any case Mugabe still retains a veto power over anything. So what we are saying is give Dr Simba Makoni a chance. Let him be elected President and then you will see that he will deliver because he is motivated not by just wanting to be President and it was not something that he initiated. He was approached by people who were desperate for leadership - to take them out of the crisis.

Gonda: You launched your policy document on Wednesday. How are you going to change things? For example what is your economic recovery plan?

Mhanda: What Dr Makoni said at the launch is what we want to do is to free the people of Zimbabwe, to re-engage with them, to empower them so that they can come up with solutions themselves. Dr Makoni is not going to dictate solutions. There are a lot of competent people and competent stakeholders in Zimbabwe who can offer solutions but they were not being listened to. But he is going to open that avenue for people to be free to discuss about the crisis and ways out of the crisis whereas Robert Mugabe was actually stifling debate on the way forward. This is going to release the people so that they can actually participate on discussions on the way forward.

Gonda: But is there really time to go back to the people and listen to the people about what the economic recovery plan should be. Shouldn't you as the leaders - the people saying you want to bring about change - shouldn't you be coming up with ideas on economic reform?

Mhanda: The ideas are there but if you are talking in terms of whether there is enough time that is up to elections. But once we get into power there will be plenty of time for us to do that. Right now . . . (Interrupted)

Gonda: How committed are you to constitutional reform?

Mhanda: Come again?

Gonda: How committed are you to constitutional reform?

Mhanda: We are. We are actually committed to constitutional reform. A new people driven constitution. That is part of the manifesto. We will go back to the people. We are committed to a people driven constitution.

Gonda: And does this mean you are going to work with the civic groups and if so have you approached them - that is civic groups and human rights bodies in Zimbabwe? Like the National Constitutional Assembly?

Mhanda: Civic society, human rights groups and beyond. Not just the civic groups. Everybody would be involved in that.

Gonda: But how are you going to convince the country's civil society when they issued a statement just a few days ago saying that they support the opposition led by Mr Morgan Tsvangirai?

Mhanda: We are neither appealing nor courting civil society. We are appealing to the people of Zimbabwe not the civil society. Our target market is the people of Zimbabwe not civil society.

Gonda: What about your stance on establishing private poverty rights?

Mhanda: One of the key tenants of the manifesto is to restore the rule of law, respect for the rule of law that also entails of necessity respect for private properties. Lawfully acquired individual properties should be respected in terms of the law.

Gonda: So would you take the war veterans off the land, those war veterans who violently grabbed land?

Mhanda: What you might term violently raided the land, some of those things have been regularised in terms of the law. We will begin with the law and then we will review the whole tenure system and see whether the land is being used productively. What Dr Makoni emphasised was that land is an important economic resource which should not be viewed sentimentally and emotionally but in terms of its benefit to the people, to the economy and in terms of alleviating poverty.

Gonda: But still people will want to know what you're going to do with those properties that were illegally taken especially by the war veterans, what are you going to do specifically with those?

Mhanda: I wonder why you are just interested in war veterans. There are a number of politicians, ministers, judges who have been involved in this but you keep going back to the war veterans!

Gonda: And even the ministers, everyone who took the farms illegally, what is your policy on that?

Mhanda: It will be in terms of the law; the law will have to take priority. Things will have to be reviewed in terms of the law. I am not in a position to say where and when the law was violated. Like I said, restoration of respect for the rule of law is one of the priorities of Simba Makoni's presidency.

Gonda: What is your view on the ZANU PF issue that power must be handed to one nationalist generation to another?

Mhanda: I am not aware of that policy myself. I don't think I understand what you are saying.

Gonda: Robert Mugabe and many people in ZANU PF have always said that nationalists are the only ones who can advocate on positions of freedom, do you subscribe to that?

Mhanda: I don't think I have heard or read that. What I recall President Mugabe saying was that the West cannot teach us about democracy. We brought democracy to Zimbabwe. He has said that quite often but for him to say that the nationalists have the monopoly on democracy I don't think I have actually captured that from him.

Gonda: And speaking about the West or the International community rather, what is the support or attitude, to start off with of South Africa and SADC to your group?

Mhanda: Our intention is actually to bring an end to the International isolation now afflicting the country, SADC and beyond. We cannot exist in isolation during this era of globalisation, we need to interact and engage everybody else on fair and equal terms.

Gonda: And what has been the response from South Africa for example and SADC to your group?

Mhanda: Like I said we have just been, Dr Makoni only announced his candidature last week and now he is in the process of actually forming a team in terms of candidates for the elections and the next thing will then be, just this afternoon there was a briefing with the diplomats. Unfortunately I did not attend that, and I cannot give you feed back on that but I am aware there was a briefing with the diplomats. And Dr Simba Makoni or Mr Chanetsa or maybe Dr Ibbo Mandaza will be in a better position to give you feedback on what actually transpired during that interaction with the diplomats. But I don't foresee any problems.

Gonda: Did the diplomats also include diplomats from the West?

Mhanda: No, No, No, Diplomats from everywhere, SADC and the International.

Gonda: Robert Mugabe told SADC that he is not relinquishing power to the opposition. How will you deal with this if that happens?

Mhanda: We don't foresee him winning the election anyway. We are going to win the election so that question does not arise.

Gonda: But he had warned already that he will not accept defeat. What would you do if this happens?

Mhanda: He would have staged a coup against the people of Zimbabwe and it will be up to the people of Zimbabwe to react to that.

Gonda: But hasn't he already compromised the vote by saying that he will not accept defeat.

Mhanda: Robert Mugabe, this is politicking, this is campaigning. There is an election coming no matter how flawed, how unlevelled the playing field is but there is an election coming about and we are confident we are going to win because we represent the embodiment and aspirations and wishes of the people of Zimbabwe - who wish to bring as speedily as possible their suffering to an end.

Gonda: But what has been the response from the ZANU PF or Mugabe rather to this announcement that some people from his party are going to stand against him. So have you received any threats or what has been his response?

Mhanda: The response was to expel Dr Simba Makoni from ZANU PF and also to threaten to expel anybody who supports him, that is as far as I know. In terms of physical threats I haven't heard of any at the present moment.

Gonda: And what about response from the grass roots - people on the ground?

Mhanda: Ever since Dr Simba Makoni, not even ever since Dr Simba Makoni announced his candidate. Ever since word appeared in the press that Dr Simba Makoni was going to stand it has generated a lot of interest. And also the wave of people seeking to verify whether their names appear on the voter's roll, and those registering afresh, was clear testimony as to the overwhelming positive response to Dr Simba Makoni's candidature.

Gonda: But is that really an indicator; is it possible that people could be going to check the voter's roll because they want to vote against ZANU PF?

Mhanda: Why all the rush, why all the sudden rush all of a sudden - why?

Gonda: Why not for the Movement for Democratic change for example? How do you know that these are your supporters, that these are people that will support you?

Mhanda: They had all the time to go and verify their names and to go and register but this coincided exactly with his (Makoni's) announcement. So surely there is a co-relation there.

Gonda: Before you go can you briefly give us your final thoughts on the situation on the ground especially as you only have a few weeks before elections, draconian laws are still in place, the state media does not give enough coverage to opposition members. How are you going to deal with all these things that are against the opposition parties in the country?

Mhanda: I think it has been said on a number of platforms and by a number of countries that the Zimbabwean crisis can only be resolved by the people of Zimbabwe themselves and we have taken up the challenge. The people who are going to campaign are not Dr Simba Makoni per se but the people themselves, who will be campaigning, who will ensure also that their vote is respected and protected. It is up to the people.

I actually call on all the people of Zimbabwe to take an interest in this election. Those who haven't registered to go and register. For those who have registered to verify whether their names appear on the voter's roll and with two days left for those people who wish to present themselves as candidates to do so as quickly as possible and present themselves as independent candidates so that they would support Dr Makoni after he wins the forthcoming presidential election.

Violet Gonda: Thank you very much Mr Wilfred Mhanda.

Wilfred Mhanda: Thank you Violet.

Comments and feedback can be emailed to violet@swradioafrica.com

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