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Education
Minister David Coltart on Question Time - Part 1
Lance Guma, SW Radio Africa
November 24, 2010
Read Part
2
Part One of
Question Time, where SW Radio Africa journalist Lance Guma speaks
to the Minister of Education, Sport, Arts and Culture, Senator David
Coltart. Questions from the listeners centred on what his Ministry
is doing to stop the harassment of teachers by ZANU PF youth militia,
the alleged incompetence of the exam council ZIMSEC, incentives
for teachers and his position on targeted sanctions, especially
the international isolation of the cricket team.
Lance
Guma: Good evening Zimbabwe and thank
you for joining us on our Question Time. Our guest this week is
the minister of Education, Sport, Arts and Culture Senator David
Coltart. Senator, thank you for joining us.
David
Coltart: Thanks Lance, good evening to you.
Guma:
Now obviously you are in South Africa, can we just start off the
programme by just letting people know what you are doing there?
Coltart:
Yes Lance, one of the projects that I've started on is a thorough
reform of Zimbabwe's curriculum and the Curriculum Development
Unit, which is located next to the university in Mount Pleasant
in Harare, has degenerated. It has got equipment which is antiquated,
most of it is over 20 years old and I'm down in South Africa
meeting with Apple to see whether we can't persuade Apple
to come in and provide us with new technology which will form the
technological basis for the redevelopment of our curriculum. So
I've got a meeting all day tomorrow with Apple in South Africa
for that purpose.
Guma: OK, well let's hope that goes on well.
I suppose we can start off with a question coming from Abe Nyoka
who wants to know if it is true that kids are still being turned
away from school for not wearing uniforms and if so, what is the
Ministry doing about that?
Coltart: Lance I must admit this is the first time
that I have heard this - that children are being turned away
for not wearing uniforms. The government policy, certainly in government
schools is obviously we have a uniform policy, we would like children
to wear uniforms but we understand that in these difficult economic
circumstances, there needs to be a bit of flexibility, so I will
be surprised if children, especially orphans or vulnerable children,
are actually being turned away.
It may be that this has happened in a private school
or a mission school over which we don't exercise the same
amount of authority. But the policy is yes, we have a uniform policy,
as far as possible it must be respected but no child should be turned
away because through poverty they have been unable to comply with
the uniform.
Guma: So are you saying it's optional -
the wearing of school uniforms is optional for all schools that
are run by the government?
Coltart: No, it's not optional. We expect
children to, as far as possible, wear the uniform for the school.
We need to try and maintain standards as best we can, but where
through poverty, an orphan or a vulnerable child simply does not
have the means to get a uniform then that child should not be excluded.
But obviously we can't have a situation of
children from wealthy parents just deciding to arrive at school
in jeans - that would lead to a total breakdown of the policy
- but where, as I say, through poverty, through force of economic
circumstances children can't comply, then headmasters know
that they have to be flexible.
Guma: Isn't that a bit of a grey area though?
How do they prove and what mechanism is in place to separate those
who are genuinely suffering poverty and those who are not?
Coltart: Lance it is a grey area and we rely on
the headmasters to exercise discretion. They tend to know the background
of children, the homes they come from. Obviously if a child pitches
up carrying an iPod and in jeans there's going to be very
little sympathy but if a child is known to come from an impoverished
family, well then the discretion will be exercised in their favour.
Guma: The next question comes from a listener in
Hurungwe who wants to know what is being done about the constant
leakage of exam papers by ZIMSEC (Zimbabwe Schools Examination Council),
he wants to know if anything can be done to improve the competence
of that council seeing there's been a catalogue of blunders
and they are failing to achieve even the basics?
Coltart: Well let me challenge that statement right
at the outset - to say that there's been a catalogue
of blunders and, I forget the precise wording but, numerous leakages.
That may have been the case several years ago. This year for the
writing of the 'O' level and 'A' level and
Grade Seven examinations at the end of the year in October, November,
there was one break-in that occurred in Masvingo. It was done by
a criminal element who broke into a school, broke the safe and stole
the examination papers.
That was not ZIMSEC's fault, ZIMSEC in my
view cannot be blamed for that and so I don't believe there
has in fact been a catalogue of blunders. I think in fact that ZIMSEC's
performance and delivery has improved beyond all recognition in
the last two years. It is delivering papers on time, the examinations
are starting on time, they are being marked on time and the results
are being delivered on time.
This was one very unfortunate event which as I say
was not the fault of ZIMSEC, in fact was not even the fault of the
school. It's impossible for us to secure all 8000 schools
in the country and ensure that every single one of them cannot be
broken in by thieves. So I'm very encouraged by the improvement
in ZIMSEC. I don't for a moment say that it's perfect,
Lance, we've got a lot of work to do to restore the public's
confidence in ZIMSEC but I think it's, as I say, it's
improved beyond all recognition in the last two years.
Guma: In November this year we did a story about
how seven schools in Rushinga had closed after teachers there fled
ZANU PF threats. ZANU PF youths are reported to have wanted to punish
them for contributing to the constitutional outreach exercise which
ended in October. Now ironically the Rushinga Member of Parliament,
the deputy Education Minister Lazarus Dokora who is your deputy
from ZANU PF, is believed to have a close relationship with these
youths in the local community.
So when we advertised that we were having you on
the programme, a teacher at one of the schools, asked us to ask
you what is being done to stop the harassment of teachers by these
militia youths and why the deputy Education minister of all people
can actively encourage such harassment of teachers in his constituency?
Coltart:
OK Lance, that's a good penetrating question. Let me just
clarify a couple of things: I'm not aware of seven schools
having been affected in Rushinga. I'm aware of one school
where six teachers have been threatened and suspended. That case
has been brought to me by the Progressive
Teachers Union of Zimbabwe and I've acted in the last
week in support of those teachers.
They wrote to me personally to say that they had
been intimidated, that they felt worried about going back to that
particular school and I have authorised their transfer, just last
week to ensure that they are kept safe and that they can transfer
to new schools so that they can continue their teaching careers.
Regarding the allegation against the deputy minister
- obviously that is a press report. I have not received any
substantiated reports in that regard and quite frankly I can't
rely on press speculation and hearsay. I have not received any affidavit
evidence, in fact in the case that these six teachers brought, these
six teachers who were affected in Rushinga, they mentioned nothing
about the deputy minister.
Obviously if I get credible evidence that the deputy
minister or any other member of the Ministry of Education is involved
in intimidating teachers, well then that will be viewed in a very
serious light and I will take the necessary measures but I simply
can't comment on mere speculation.
Let me just end this question by saying that I've
given very clear directions in the last year that schools are not
to be used for partisan political activity. I have banned war veterans
and militia and indeed members of any political party from using
schools for political ends.
Schools are meant to be educational institutions,
there needs to be security for children and teachers and it's
simply unacceptable that teachers or children for that matter should
be subjected to political intimidation or threats of any kind.
I'm also working on a comprehensive review
of the education regulations and when these are finally published
it's going to be made very clear that schools are not to be
used for partisan political activity and I hope that we can even
attach some criminal sanctions to ensure that any people who breach
that policy will then incur the wrath of the law.
Guma: We move on to Tawanda Mhuriro - he wants to
know what will happen after parents' incentives for teachers
are banned, will teachers be content with their base salaries and
what's in place to avoid the resultant chaos?
Coltart: Lance the incentives issue has been one
of the most vexing problems that I have faced since becoming minister
in February 2009. You will recall, when we came into government
the teaching profession was in a state of chaos. 20000 teachers
left the profession during 2007 and 2008 and even when the inclusive
government started, teachers were only paid an allowance of 100
US dollars which is not befitting their status as teachers and is
an unviable salary.
And whilst their salaries have gone up somewhat
most teachers simply cannot come out on what they're paid
and the amount the teachers are paid in Zimbabwe is way below what
they can expect to be paid in, certainly private schools, in mission
schools and indeed in schools in South Africa and Botswana and even
in some schools in Mozambique, Malawi and Zambia.
But the problem I faced was that the Minister of
Finance, Minister Biti simply did not have sufficient money to pay
teachers a viable salary. The policy of incentives had been introduced
prior to me coming in as minister and I decided, in consultation
with the trade unions, to continue allowing incentives to be raised
from parents to ensure that there were these top-ups for teachers.
It has been unsatisfactory, I don't like the
policy, I would like to end it as soon as possible. It has caused
tension between teachers and parents, it has even caused tension
between rural teachers and urban-based teachers because of the discrepancies.
Rural parents tend to have less capacity to pay incentives than
urban parents and because of all of these problems it's a
policy that should have a short life.
It needs to be ended as soon as possible but it
can only be ended when I can be assured that teachers will remain
at their posts and will remain motivated to teach children. We simply
cannot afford to revert to the situation that prevailed in 2007
and 2008 in which teachers went out of the profession in droves
and that seriously undermined the entire education system.
I have lobbied as hard as I can, Minister Biti is
very sympathetic, he understands the need to ensure that teachers
are paid a viable salary but of course his ability to do that is
constrained by the economy, by the state of the economy but the
moment we can start paying teachers a viable wage I will move to
end incentives but, I stress, only once I know that teachers will
be paid a reasonable salary.
Guma: OK now as Sports Minister, your position on
cricket has been very clear and you have been calling for Zimbabwe's
international isolation to end. Now Samson in Mutare wants to know
whether you still stand by this position given the apparent collapse
of the coalition government. He says the isolation was meant to
be a pressure point and by seeking to have it removed, are you not
doing ZANU PF's work for them?
Coltart:
Lance, my view on sanctions is as follows: I, there're two
main arguments - the first is that we signed up to the GPA
and included in the GPA
was an undertaking that we would move to lift sanctions. ZANU PF
has not honoured the GPA. They have not put the governors in place,
they have breached the GPA in a variety of different ways but quite
frankly, we, in my view, need to honour our side of the bargain.
That's the first argument.
The second argument and it touches on the first
because I'm sure many people will say well you're simply
being naïve to think that ZANU are ever going to honour their
side of the bargain and that's why the second argument is
vitally important and it's this - I believe ironically
that sanctions actually benefit ZANU PF more than anyone else at
present.
We've had these targeted sanctions in place
since 2001 - we need to ask ourselves the question -
have they affected the ZANU PF hierarchy at all? Perhaps it has
prevented them from shopping at Harrods but it has not stopped them
from abusing the rule of law, it has not stopped them from looting
the country.
You've just got to go to Borrowdale to see
the massive mansions that have been built by the ZANU PF hierarchy
in the last decade and you will see that the financial targeted
sanctions have not affected them one iota and the irony is that
they now use sanctions as a pretext, as an excuse not to implement
other aspects of the GPA such as the swearing in of governors and
the like.
And my view is that we need to actually deflate
ZANU PF, remove this excuse because it is not, it is simply a fiction,
it is an illusion if we think that these targeted sanctions are
having any, either physical or psychological impact on ZANU PF.
I think that they are cynically using the continuation
of targeted sanctions as an excuse and we need to remove that excuse
so that they are left naked and the region and the rest of the world
can see in fact who is now to blame for the non-implementation of
the Global Political Agreement.
Guma: But the argument of course used to counter
that is that you remove that excuse, ZANU PF will find another excuse
and history has shown us that at different political periods they
have used different excuses for different things.
Coltart: Oh I have no doubt that they will try and
use a different excuse but if you look at their rhetoric and their
propaganda the last year, two years, they have been solely focussed
on sanctions, sanctions, sanctions. It has been their mantra day
in, day out. It's very difficult to change that mantra if
that excuse is lifted.
But then I come back to the other argument Lance,
we have to seriously ask ourselves the question what effect have
the sanctions had? Even if they do move on to some other excuse,
what leverage have they in fact had on ZANU PF? Perhaps they've
stopped one or two of them from travelling to Harrods but that is
the only impact that I see that targeted sanctions have had on ZANU
PF.
Guma: OK we just have to quickly round up the first
part of this interview. I'll just throw in one more question
and if you can just answer briefly - when ZANU PF are asking to
have these sanctions removed, and this is one question posed by
our listeners, who do they want to remove them because does the
MDC really have the power to have the sanctions removed?
Coltart: Well of course we don't and in fact
that's been illustrated very clearly in my own ministry. As
you know, as Minister of Sport I've been to Australia, New
Zealand and Britain this year and in every country I've called
for these targeted measures to be removed.
I as you know, I tried to encourage the Scottish
cricket team to come out and the British government simply disregarded
what I had to say and it's a clear illustration of the fact
that with all the good faith in the world there's a limit
to what the MDC can do in the removal of these sanctions.
Guma: So what does ZANU PF want you to do? What
does ZANU PF want you to do if you have no power to remove them?
Coltart: Well exactly and that is why this excuse
that they give for not implementing other aspects of the GPA must
be removed.
Guma: OK we have to conclude Part One of the interview
with the Minister of Education, Sport, Arts and Culture. We received
quite a huge response from listeners in Zimbabwe and clearly I hope
Senator you'll join us next week to conclude some of the questions
that hundreds of Zimbabweans have been asking. Many thanks for joining
us this week.
Coltart: Thank you Lance.
Remember you can still send in your questions for
the Minister who will join us again next week for Part Two. You
can facebook, twitter, skype, e-mail and SMS, your questions. You
can reach the programme by typing lanceguma, on e-mail its lance@swradioafrica.com
and in Zimbabwe you can text 077-2-643-871.
Feedback can
be sent to http://twitter.com/lanceguma
or http://www.facebook.com/lance.guma
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