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Co-Home Affairs Minister Theresa Makone on Question Time
Lance Guma, SW Radio Africa
November 10, 2010

http://www.swradioafrica.com/pages/questiontime121110.html

Read Part 2

On the first ever edition of Question Time, SW Radio Africa journalist Lance Guma speaks to the co-Home Affairs Minister Theresa Makone, and asks her questions posed by the many Zimbabweans who contacted the show using new media formats like facebook, twitter, skype, sms and e-mail. Because of the huge response the interview has been broken into two parts with the other one to be broadcast next week Wednesday.

Lance Guma: Hello Zimbabwe and welcome to the first ever edition of Question Time on SW Radio Africa. Today we have the co-Home Affairs minister Theresa Makone joining us to take your questions. Thank you for coming onto the programme.

Theresa Makone: Thank you very much for inviting me, I also want to say good evening to the listeners.

Guma: Under the power sharing deal your party agreed to share the Home Affairs ministry with ZANU PF; the first question came from Gilbert in Mutare who wants to know why your party agreed to share this ministry with ZANU PF and yet ZANU PF have sole control of the defence ministry and his second question is, is this co-sharing working?

Makone: You must remember the politics at the time that we entered this government, absolutely everything we had to negotiate between the three parties for the portfolios that we wanted and initially the Ministry of Home Affairs had been allocated to ZANU PF but as the MDC we said that there were important ministries that we would want to have under our care, particularly the Ministry of Defence, the Ministry of Home Affairs, the Ministry of Finance, the Ministry of Women I think and also the Ministry of Youth.

These are strategic ministries in our government. It was very, very protracted and almost a bruising fight and in the end, the Ministry of Defence was kept by ZANU PF, but on the Ministry of Home Affairs we finally agreed that this important security ministry could be shared and should be shared because of our experiences with the police force during the time when we were in opposition.

And with the Ministry of Women and Youth, it was decided that we would deputise. Nevertheless, the importance is not so much why we agreed or whether we agreed, a government that is functional it normally shouldn't have mattered who had it but because of our history it was absolutely critical that we be included in this, that is I think the answer to the first part.

And as to whether or not it is working, I can assure you that on a personal level and on a professional level I can work very well with Comrade Mohadi, we have absolutely no problems with each other and with the way we see things and the way they should go.

But having said that we must remember that we both come from different political parties and we have got our own interests in this particular ministry and we do have to reach compromises from time to time.

Guma: I suppose my next question pretty much is a follow-up to what you've just said; the latest edition of the MDC Real Changing Times newsletter is talking about the random, careless and partisan issuance of offer letters for land reform and how this is causing unnecessary confusion between the executive and the judiciary.

You are quoted as saying - the complaints reaching the Ministry of Home Affairs suggest that the state has failed to enforce the law on the farms. You then sought the advice of the Attorney General on the matter and he leaked the letter to the state-owned media who in turn distorted the story.

Now several questions have come from our listeners on this who say is it not clear then that you are working with people who do not respect your authority and are out to undermine you at every turn?

Makone: If one had to look at your authority being affected then we obviously we would not even have bothered to go into this government. We went into this government fully well knowing what to expect and what happened and what sometimes happens doesn't surprise you but you cannot forget the agenda of the country as a whole because of the inconveniences that you as an individual might suffer from time to time.

There's a bigger picture out there and the bigger picture is to set the correct policy for the country which the people of Zimbabwe will benefit from in the future and to leave a mark of your own contribution to this democratic struggle when all is said and done so how particular individuals will react when you push a policy should not really deter you on your chosen path.

Guma: But isn't the problem the fact that, although you have been put in these positions, you in a sense clearly have no power to influence anything because ZANU PF is doing as they please?

Makone: It is not a question about me as a person, it is a question of whether the whole government is in a position to do anything at all. There is not one minister that I know who can say that I as an individual can influence this. Most of the things that happen in government are as a result of cabinet consensus and once you agree in government that this is going to be policy, whether you as an individual agreed with it or not, that's generally the direction you go.

Yes you caretake on a day-to-day basis but you are basically following policy that is agreed to in cabinet so it's not an individual effort in government. I think people out there probably don't understand how it works. They think that a minister can just stand up and give instructions and all is done - it doesn't work that way.

If it's policy which is what ministers are responsible for we have to agree in cabinet, especially this cabinet where we are inclusive. You cannot do something unilaterally and then in future expect your colleagues to support you. You do go by consensus.

Guma: But ZANU PF do do things unilaterally, isn't that the problem?

Makone: You must be specific because I don't know of a minister in ZANU PF who did anything unilaterally.

Guma: OK, no I'm referring to Mugabe appointing ambassadors, judges, governors - that sort of thing.

Makone: He is not a minister remember, he's a principal so if you are going to compare me you must compare me with my equals.

Guma: OK let's move on to the next question from white commercial farmer Ben Freeth from Mount Carmel farm - he says in light of the continuing disregard of High Court orders and another order from the SADC Tribunal, they have not been able to go onto their farm for almost two years. So his question to you, this is Ben Freeth, is - where do you stand on the SADC Tribunal and its position on the land reform?

Makone: You know what, I've never really studied what the judgement of the Tribunal was and my position, my personal position is that, that ruling was done by the Tribunal outside Zimbabwe and the argument inside Zimbabwe was the farmers should have presented themselves to the local courts so I've basically been addressing myself to the judgements from the local courts and the judgements from the local courts are not too different from what the Tribunal has done or said.

Basically the ones that I have seen where evicting people who came there illegally and false offer letters and these are the ones that were not being enforced and these are the ones that I was being asked by the public why the police are not taking action to remove the people that had been removed by Zimbabwean courts.

And I was also getting representation from beneficiaries who were saying that I've got this offer letter and I am been evicted by Zimbabwean courts. This forced me to now study the Act that govern the land reform programme and it was after reading the Act that I then wrote the Attorney General in order to get clarification on certain points.

So I'm not going to give my position on the SADC ruling because I'm not familiar with it but I will give my position on rulings by Zimbabwean courts. We should actually as a country, be enforcing what the Zimbabwean courts have said because they're in line with the Acts, the land reform or the Land Settlement Act, Chapter 20.01. That they are in line with and that is what I can talk about. I cannot talk about what was done outside of which I've not (inaudible).

Guma: OK but even the courts in Zimbabwe have given protection to some of these farmers but these are being disregarded. There's a wildlife conservancy in Beitbridge, there's several other examples I could give and people are wondering why the police do not enforce some of these court orders. So they would want to know from you as co-Home Affairs minister what is the policy and is there is anything that you can do to help these people?

Makone: You have just referred to the conservancy in the Beitbridge area - I would like you to look into it again and see whether the position you are talking about is still pertaining.

Guma: That's the Denlynian Game Ranch?

Makone: I'm not too sure about the name but there is a conservancy in that area which has since got reprieve and the people that had gone onto the farm were removed and they were removed by the police. So I cannot tell you the name of the farm, I know it's a conservancy in that area so if that is a different one I don't know about that particular one.

Guma: Lloyd in Coventry in the United Kingdom is worried about the rampant corruption in the Zimbabwe Republic Police. He says 'during my recent visit to Zimbabwe I discovered that roadblocks that are being mounted by the police on the country's highways are nothing other than money-making ventures.'

He says for example he encountered six roadblocks just for a 90 kilometre journey from Harare to Bindura, at each of the roadblocks they are openly demanding bribes from motorists, and the most affected are kombis and long distance buses. So his question is this is happening on a daily basis, what is being done about this?

Makone: I am very familiar with that particular situation, I know about it and I have requested that the commissioner of police come to see me. Unfortunately the day that I had wanted and had the time to see him, he was attending a pass-out parade in Ntabazinduna so I'm still to give him an alternative time so that we can talk about it.

I've actually told him that the thing is that I want to talk about includes the so-called corruption that you are referring to. I don't actually even need to consult any other person because I was a victim of it myself because people don't know me generally so when they see me they probably behave like they do with the rest of the public so I've experienced it myself and I'm still to engage him.

It is a cause for concern and Zimbabweans phone me almost on a daily basis about that one. I intend to discuss that with the commissioner general and we agree on what should be the way forward because if you don't do something about it, it really is going to affect the way other people see us from inside and outside the country and it also has an impact on confidence on the country as a whole and the investing public will really not be looking at us very kindly so it's absolutely critical that we do something about that and we are looking at it.

Guma: Isn't the problem though that this has been happening for quite some time and it seems as if there's some active encouragement from the top. Is it because the police are underpaid and this is one way of them earning an extra income?

Makone: Well let's talk about corruption as a whole. We should not think that it's a preserve of the ZRP. Corruption is rampant in this country and it is across the board in the public as well as the private sector but in the area where I am interested in, which is the Ministry of Home Affairs, and in this particular case, in the ZRP, this is something we would like to address internally.

I have seen communications of situations where the commissioner general has fired people and dismissed people and relocated people probably where he didn't have enough evidence in an effort to try and contain corruption so we cannot say that it is encouraged from the top. That really would not be fair at all.

Corruption will happen but people should make sure that they deal with it as best they can and obviously while the economic situation is what it is in the country it will continue to be a challenge but that is no excuse in itself for corruption being looked at in a mild manner because it is a serious thing, it affects the public and it has to be dealt with and I would like to assure the public that as soon as I'm able to create the time at the time that it also suits the commissioner general, we will sit down and talk.

And remember I've not been there for one year - there are so many other departments in the Ministry of Home Affairs that one has to look at but that is actually one that is crying out for attention, so we will attend to it.

Guma: Human rights lawyer Tinoziva Bere who represented diamond rights activist Farai Maguwu wants to know if there's anything you can do to ensure the police are non-partisan before, during and after elections. If so what precisely will you do to ensure this and if not, what do you suggest as a solution?

Makone: You will remember that in the GPA when the negotiators were talking about the security sector, they is a chapter, I think it's Chapter 13 Paragraph 2A and I think there are about four paragraphs up to D where they are talking about the security sector reform.

It is generally recognised that before you can go into any meaningful elections there is need to realign the thinking of the security sector which has been trained to look at the MDC as an opposition party, the party which is driven by a western agenda, a party which is going to reverse the land reform programme, in fact a western package. That is the training that they had.

So until that training is reversed and it is accepted that we live in a plural democratic state and that the security sector has got a job of looking after all citizens regardless of their political alignment and that they themselves are not participants in the political fight that happens between parties and that they themselves are not necessarily going to be victims of any winners or losers and that there is no real reason to make sure that one political agenda is pursued then you can't.

So when they were talking about these things as negotiators it was not going to be up to the Minister of Home Affairs to reverse it was going to take political will by the principals of government.

Guma: I suppose Jiri who is in Harare actually has a good follow-up question because Jiri wants to know if there are any training programmes directed at the ZRP to educate them on how to be professional and not get involved in politics as they are doing?

Makone: Nothing has yet been shown to me which spells out that this is now the new curriculum in light of the GPA and the Amendment Number 19. If it is there, it has not been brought to my attention so as far as I am concerned we are still waiting to see the new curriculum which takes into account the multi-party democratic society being the centre of the politics of Zimbabwe and where the security sector is subservient to a civilian authority so I'm still waiting to see that and when it is there, I'll be able to tell you.

But what I can tell you is that this is something that has got to be addressed by the principals and it is actually crying out for help because now we are talking about going to an election before perpetrators of violence and some of it really serious violent crimes, have been brought to book or at least have been rehabilitated and have been talked to or arrested depending on what is needed by the same police.

You begin to wonder how this can work because until such times as the police feel confident enough to arrest a person who has committed a crime because of political interests, until that time comes, then you cannot really say that there has been a realignment of the security sector.

Guma: Well that concludes Part One of this interview.

Next week part 2 will look at why the MDC-T struggled to get police clearance for a meeting in Highfields, the voters roll, passport chaos and delays, youth militia who raped opposition supporters in the past, preparations to ensure a free and fair election, abuse of under-age girls by church elders in many apostolic sects among many other issues.

Question Time on SW Radio Africa, is the programme that allows you to ask the questions. Every week prominent politicians and public figures will answer your questions about issues that are affecting you.

You can facebook, twitter, skype, e-mail and SMS, your questions to the station and we will put them to the selected guest.

Whether its facebook, twitter or skype you can reach me by typing lanceguma (one word), on e-mail you can reach me on lance@swradioafrica.com and in Zimbabwe you can text 077-2-643-871.

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