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Energy & Power Development Minister Elton Mangoma on BTH
Lance Guma, SW Radio Africa
September 30, 2010

Background: Last week a re-engagement committee from the coalition government travelled to the US in an attempt to have targeted sanctions on members and companies linked to the Mugabe regime removed. On Behind the Headlines SW Radio Africa journalist Lance Guma speaks to Energy and Power Development Minister Elton Mangoma, who is part of this committee, and asks him why they are supporting the removal of these measures.

Lance Guma: Welcome to Behind the Headlines. My guest this week is the Energy and Power Development minister, Elton Mangoma who is also part of the coalition government's re-engagement committee. Now this committee is attempting to open up ties between Zimbabwe and the international community and was recently in the United States. Mr. Mangoma thank you for joining us on the programme.

Elton Mangoma: Thank you, good evening.

Guma: Now let's start with the mandate of the re-engagement committee, what is it meant to do?

Mangoma: The mandate of the re-engagement committee is to be able to do exactly that - re-engage with mostly the western world because as you know during the early 2000 up to the formation of the inclusive government, Zimbabwe was isolated, mostly as a result of the perceived conditions on elections that were not regarded to be free and fair, human rights abuses and violence and as a result, the western world particularly the EU and the United States formalised that with what we regard as the sanctions or measures, to be able to sanction lots of the ZANU PF people. So now that there is an inclusive government the mandate is to be able to say let's establish the relation to make sure that we can be able to talk to those countries so that Zimbabwe becomes one of the many other nations that can freely associate with everyone.

Guma: You recently travelled to the United States and met a delegation of politicians there led by Assistant Secretary of State for African Affairs Johnny Carson; tell us about this meeting, how did it go?

Mangoma: Well the meeting was cordial. We did update them on what has happened in Zimbabwe, both on the economic and political fronts and indicated that the country has improved in terms of economic outlook quite a lot and that there was relative peace in Zimbabwe and that we feel that our economic situation could be a lot better if indeed we could get, not just the humanitarian assistance that we are getting but also to start to get the developmental assistance and investment.

We believe that as a country we have got investment opportunities and if they came in as investors, our outlook would be much better and therefore we needed, at least as a country, that America tells its citizens that they can indeed invest in Zimbabwe and as a country they can start assisting us in our difficult areas so that we can become more democratic and because sometimes just watching us to say be democratic on your own can be very difficult. You look at the situation of many of the democratisation issues that require some funding and that is part of the things that we are asking for there.

Guma: Now the US government has already made it clear I'm sure to your re-engagement committee that although they recognise the economic advances made there has been no progress on the political front, so how do you go around this?

Mangoma: Well in fact we were updating them and saying look there are commissions that have now been established that were not there before. There is an agreed independent Zimbabwe electoral commission, there is an independent media commission which as you would know has licensed five newspapers and has allowed the kind of international operators like CNN and BBC to operate from Zimbabwe. What we still have to do is to be able to look at the radio and then we would have completed the opening up of the media space.

That there is now the human rights commission and that these are truly democratisations by building institutions of democracy and therefore we, there is some progress, not enough progress we must agree but some progress has been made and in this case the issues of violence are issues in point and particular I think it was very unfortunate that we had the WOZA women arrested just before we left and that over that weekend that there was violence on the constitution-making process meetings in Harare so of course it would then justify them to say that there is still violence in your country. Everyone knew we would be able to ask and say look there is some relative peace, whether it will hold is the issue that we can talk about.

Guma: Is this not a chicken and egg dilemma, or putting the cart before the horse kind of scenario where it's debatable what should start first? Your committee seems to have the unenviable task of convincing people that all is well when evidence says all is not well. What should start?

Mangoma: Well as far as we are concerned we are already in this journey and clearly what is required is to be able to have an environment in which peace and stability can take place and that environment is not going to be created by us alone, we need everybody in the world to assist us. We have got the facilitator in South Africa doing his best, we have got SADC doing their best but if the international community just looks at us it means that they are leaving us to our own devices.

Our, the point we have been drilling home is that we would like to be assisted both financially and morally for us to be able to make the difficult steps that we must make. We would not be, you know it's very easy to condemn us, but I think that there is a special opportunity, a window that is open that can be utilised to make Zimbabwe truly peaceful because where we are it is not very difficult for us to descend into chaos, we could become another Somalia and it's no use for anybody to say we told you so.

This is an opportunity for us to make sure that Zimbabwe prospers as opposed to going backward because very few people will benefit from the chaos that was existing before. The majority of people will benefit from a peaceful and prosperous Zimbabwe and that really is the journey that we want to be able to steer this country to go to. Yes it's difficult but it's a journey that we must do and wholeheartedly achieve.

Guma: Now you are quoted as saying it's more important to try to rebuild Zimbabwe than to dwell on President Robert Mugabe and the past. Now the question is how do you do that when occasionally things are happening like for example today in our news bulletin we are covering an MDC statement that is calling on war veterans' leader Jabulani Sibanda to be arrested because of what he is doing in the Masvingo province, you had Chrispen Mandizvidza killed during violent attacks by ZANU PF youths, the WOZA demonstration as you pointed out and several other violations, how do you ignore such things and try and be optimistic like you are saying?

Mangoma: We are not saying they should be ignored at all. I think that there is need to be able to balance. No-one, no-one and certainly concentrating on the person of Robert Mugabe does not necessarily take us forward. He is 86 years old and clearly even if you gave him another long life it's unlikely to be a major life in the terms of the life of this country. Therefore it is important that we think of the children who are being born today and those who are supposed to go to school.

If you see the situation in Zimbabwe now, the shops are full, the children are going to school, hospitals are open - they were shut at some point and therefore it is this progress which we must try and balance against the continuous violence and be able to see how we can bring that peace into Zimbabwe.

And therefore it is important not only to dwell on the side of these transgressions, but yes indeed those transgressions must be brought to book. We would like them to be brought to book now, you know it was Jabulani Sibanda who's doing this and he must be brought to book and we know that the more we make the progress, the more he'll be brought to book.

Guma: Now Prime Minister Morgan Tsvangirai this week blamed ZANU PF for destroying the economy and essentially shot holes into their persistent claims that targeted sanctions were to blame and his exact quote was that - 'our problems emanated from mis-governance, the violent land reform and RBZ's printing of worthless money.' Now is the MDC not contradicting itself by being part of a committee that is seeking to have the same measures removed if the same party is acknowledging that those sanctions did not destroy the economy?

Mangoma: Well there's no contradiction. My view and the view of the party is that this economy was not destroyed by sanctions, whatever you call them. This economy was destroyed by mis-management by ZANU PF. This economy was destroyed by the lack of knowledge by ZANU PF people in terms of how to manage a country properly.

This economy was destroyed because they thought that they could reinvent their own form of economics which is not possible and those things stand on record but what we are saying is we are no longer printing any more money and because we can't print we have been able to introduce a more robust macro-economic policies that can take this country forward and it's those things that we need to rebuild on and therefore as far as the economy is concerned, that's why the economy is doing well now even when these sanctions are still there.

We believe that and we have demonstrated it that the sanctions did not destroy the economy. So that is a separate argument when we now talk about let's now just be able to sit together as nations. That's what we are seeking for.

Guma: But when you are asking for the same measures to be removed are you not just simply giving into ZANU PF's demands, if you acknowledge that the measures are not killing the economy?

Mangoma: No, what we are saying is that those measures had a certain particular contribution they made at that point. Right now there is need to think through that are they still as useful as they could be and therefore think of something that is different. You can't continue to be, when there was a ZANU PF government the measures were important, now you've got an inclusive government the measures might not be as important as other things.

That's what we are asking them - to think and reflect and you can even see from the US itself that the congressmen in the US are beginning, there are two bills that they have put through to say the old ZEDERA that was there is no longer serving the purpose. That's what we are talking to them about because their own people are already beginning to say that as well, so we must also be able to say that there could be other ways of doing this without having to dwell on ZEDERA and so on.

Guma: If the measures are removed, some are suggesting if the measures are removed then there is no incentive for ZANU PF to behave.

Mangoma: I think there are so many incentives to behave. The future of the economy is sufficient incentive to behave and therefore what we are saying is that the old things that were put in do not necessarily in themselves continue to have the same value.

They can think of something else that has got more value and clearly, this one what you are saying is the fact of putting in the Industrial Development Corporation as a parastatal on measures is not going to serve the country and the people of Zimbabwe in the way that it did before the inclusive government was done. That's what we are saying.

Guma: My final question, what is the next port of call for the re-engagement committee? I believe you've met the US politicians, you've also had similar meetings in the EU, what is next?

Mangoma: Well we were possibly looking at Canada and Australia as the next countries we should talk to and then we then broaden it possibly to the issues like the Commonwealth and so on so that we begin to offer ourselves to the rest of the world to say yes there could be things that are wrong, please tell us but also help us. It's no use just punishing us without assisting us.

Guma: That's the Energy and Power Development minister Elton Mangoma who is also part of the coalition government's re-engagement committee. Mr. Mangoma thank you for joining us on the programme.

Mangoma: Thank you.

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