Back to Index

This article participates on the following special index pages:

Transcript of 'Hot Seat' interview with constitutional law expert Dr. Lovemore Madhuku
Violet Gonda , SW Radio Africa
May 16, 2008

http://www.swradioafrica.com/pages/hotseat200508.htm

Violet Gonda: The Chairman of the National Constitutional Assembly Dr. Lovemore Madhuku is my guest on the programme Hot Seat today. Hello and welcome Dr. Madhuku.

Dr. Madhuku: Thank you very much and you are welcome as well.

Violet: Let's start by getting your thoughts on the situation in Zimbabwe at present.

Dr. Madhuku: Well the situation is very clear here in terms of the political framework, I think you know what is the subject matter here in Zimbabwe is the violence that the ruling party is unleashing. This violence is really so bad in terms of how it is affecting rural people and also in the urban areas. So we have seen violence at almost the same levels as we saw them in 2000 when people were just randomly beaten, homes destroyed and so forth. That's what we are experiencing at the moment.

Violet: And we hear the numbers of those getting killed keep increasing and the MDC says that at least 34 people are now dead as a result of the violence. How can people protect themselves against this brutality?

Dr. Madhuku: I think one way of protecting themselves is of course to try and defend themselves. There are many areas where people have responded to the attacks and there has been a reduction in the level of the attacks. These people have gone out and said; 'No you can't do this to us, we will also beat them' and so forth. Things have gone a bit better there. But where they just keep quiet while they are being beaten the violence goes completely uncontrolled.

Violet: So Dr. Madhuku are you saying people should begin to retaliate in self-defense?

Dr. Madhuku: There should be self defense where it is possible and where it is impossible we would expect that the international community and the rest of us, the political people in the country could take measures against the government. Like for example if people are getting brutalized in Mutoko, in Mashonaland East there is nothing to stop people in Harare going into the streets in large numbers protesting against that behaviour and putting pressure on the government here in Harare. So those two methods must be employed. People in the urban areas or people in areas that are not subject to the violent attacks must be seen by action on the ground. I think that they should increase their level of political sensitivity. If we are all seen in the streets in those areas that are safe, protesting against Mugabe's methods it would be very difficult for them to continue to do that because it would cause instability in the country. But where people can defend themselves they should defend themselves and they are doing it in some areas with success.

Violet: But why are we not seeing this widespread outcry right now. People are getting beaten, tortured and killed and yet there is no widespread outcry. Why is there silence from those that are in the country?

Dr. Madhuku: The problem we are facing at the moment is that this is happening in the context of an election dispute and so naturally many people against ZANU were providing a framework for the MDC leadership to sort of give some direction on how to do it and how to respond and that has not been coming. And it is difficult to expect other organizations or other groups to just come up and say; 'Look we are facing a very difficult situation in the country. There is ZANU PF violence there let's do it this way', it's a bit problematic, although that can still be pursued. But there really is a leadership vacuum in so far as the response is concerned.

Violet: Let's talk a bit more about that leadership vacuum. It seems that many people are waiting for Morgan Tsvangirai, the MDC leader, to go back to Zimbabwe and mobilize people but what about the civic society itself, what is it doing right now to either mobilize the people or what are you doing in response to the abuse?

Dr. Madhuku: Well there is not one organization called civic society. Civic society is various groups that exist outside political parties and they are called civic society. There are civic groups that are already providing the medical facilities, providing the humanitarian assistance. Many of them are doing that. So perhaps if you were asking the civic groups that would be called political, in terms of political response. The agreement amongst civic groups is that any political response must not draw a distinction between civic society and the MDC. Any political response must be done as one unit. So what has only been done now has been meetings between civic society and the MDC to say; 'How do we respond and respond together?' We cannot have a situation where there is a civic society response there and an MDC response there. That wouldn't produce any results because it is election related. If you do an activity that might be criticized by the other organs and then it is counterproductive.

Let's say the NCA was to come out and start its own activities which may not be in line with what the MDC thinks then we would be asked who is the NCA to be causing this problem when this is about elections.

Violet: So you mentioned that there is a leadership vacuum. What should be happening that is not happening right now?

Dr. Madhuku: I think what should be happening that is not happening right now is to get a political direction from those who are outside ZANU PF; 'ZANU PF is doing this to our people, the people of the country, let's do this' and we all do that. But there is no statement telling us or advising us or leading us into some direction. People have so many ideas - there are those like I said earlier, that some people must retaliate but I know that you will get responses which criticize that approach. They will say; 'No, no you can't do that, you can't respond', but this is merely my opinion. Or people who would say let's go to the streets. I have given you two suggestions as to what should be done but merely I am speaking as an individual and if I were to be in a position to ask the NCA people to do that, that is what we would do. But I am merely one person I am not the person at this stage who should do that. I think the person to do that would be Tsvangirai and his executive or leaders. They should come out very openly and say what they expect Zimbabwean people to do.

Violet: And Mr Tsvangirai has been criticized for spending too much time outside the country while his supporters are being beaten and killed. He is also attacked for being reactive and always responding and waiting for Robert Mugabe to make the first move. Do you think this is fair criticism?

Dr. Madhuku: It is very, very fair criticism. Tsvangirai should not have been out of the country for more than a few days and I think that point must be made. And I think there are people around Tsvangirai who keep telling him that it is appropriate that he should do what they call 'diplomatic work' outside the country. In political leadership it is important that you are there with the people that you lead. Diplomatic initiatives are secondary. They play a secondary role to the processes. The first process was an election; people went out and peacefully voted for the MDC and voted for Tsvangirai for President. They have played their part and if that position is being reversed by a government I don't think the first response is; 'Let me go to the United Nations to try and ask them to intervene'. I think the first thing is; 'No what do we do here on the ground, in the country?' So I would understand that there was need from time to time for Tsvangirai to talk to African leaders, talk to leaders in wherever places he went to but that cannot be done indefinitely or ad infinitum. You have to say I do it for a week and that's all.

But I find that even some of the guys that are working with him they want to make it big news that he is coming back to Zimbabwe. That should not be big news at all. The fact is that there is an election that took place when Tsvangirai was around, people went to vote and they are quite frustrated by what ZANU PF is doing, they expect the leadership to be in the country, to be harassed together with them and to provide the way. And it is even disturbing that the MDC says when he (Tsvangirai) comes back they want to do what they call victory meetings; I don't know what that means. That is actually out of touch to what is happening in the country.

Violet: But knowing the extent of the situation on the ground in Zimbabwe right now would it really make any difference if he was in the country and also what about the safety situation?

Dr. Madhuku: That question of yours seems to suggest that Tsvangirai is in some special class. He is only special to the extent that he is providing leadership. His only role is to be the leader - that is his role - and leadership is not being protected. Leadership is to really take the risks that go with leadership. So you shouldn't say would it make any difference; the point of the matter is that the political struggle is taking place in Zimbabwe and he is leading a struggle in Zimbabwe so he should be in Zimbabwe where the struggle is. I don't think it matters to say will it make a difference or not because he is not leading a struggle being waged elsewhere. It's a struggle being waged in Zimbabwe and those who are involved in it should be here with the risks that go with it.

Violet: There is this frustration that you talked about that there is no action in Zimbabwe. Now do you think Mugabe has skillfully used the power of the incumbency to wear out and intimidate the people to such an extent that Zimbabweans are now powerless to fight for their rights?

Dr. Madhuku: Zimbabweans are not necessarily powerless to fight for their rights. I think I must emphasize that issue of a leadership vacuum - I want to get back to it. Zimbabweans are the same Zimbabweans who fought for liberation. That is always the mistake that comes in. These are the people who went to war against the Smith regime, it's the same Zimbabweans that did that. And although they are peaceful in the sense that they see what Mugabe is doing I think they are prepared to fight. Would you have imagined that these people would have turned out the way they did on the 29th of March and delivered that vote against Mugabe, in the light of his propaganda, in the light of intimidation and so forth? I am sure many people will turn out and vote against him and that many more also would still be prepared to engage in other actions that promote the processes. But you are correct that Mugabe is using the power of the incumbency - that is he is in power and he is manipulating the system but he is getting away with it because we are not obviously making it very difficult for him to continue doing that.

I mean take the delay in the presidential results as long as they were delaying every day and they were seeing nothing happening, they were going to continue doing that. And now they wake up and tell us that they are not going to respect the 21-day period in the Electoral Act, and I am sure many people will accept it. And then we go to an election and I am sure they want to come out of that election making sure they have won it and so on. These things will continue to be the case as long as there is not political leadership that is provided. And you alongside many journalists want to place civic society in the position of political leaders and I think that is very unfair because we are not leading a political struggle. The fact that in Zimbabwean civic society people have been arrested, beaten up and so on it shouldn't be the case. That should be the role of those who are in political leadership really.

I don't know if there was a civic society during the National liberation struggle but what I knew then was that civic society was just providing food and so on but the so called guerilla fighters, the so called national liberators were the people on the ground in the forefront and they did most of the work. Then the civic society people - because these are churches - these are the kind of people that are normally soft, that normally constitute civic society. But in Zimbabwe this is being turned upside down.

Violet: But Dr. Madhuku didn't civic society actually place itself in this position of entering the political space. Even before the elections, you announced that as the NCA you were endorsing and campaigning for Morgan Tsvangirai, so is it the media that has done this or it's the civic society and yourself that has done that?

Dr. Madhuku: I think perhaps we are misunderstanding each other. I am not saying that civic society must not play a political role, it plays a political role and we have been playing a political role and the points that you are raising that is clear politics. The point I've been making here is the question of who leads who in this kind of crisis. That is the issue which I'm sure should come out very clearly in this interview. Who leads who? Should civic society be at the forefront and then dragging the MDC and other people to a political direction or should the MDC be dragging the rest of society and seeking civil society support for a political direction? They asked us to vote for Tsvangirai and we did that, we campaigned for Morgan because he presented himself as the presidential candidate. What I am saying is that the MDC must present another political direction which we will endorse and support.

For example if they call upon us to mobilize Zimbabweans along side with them to go to the streets, we'll do that as a reaction to what is happening. What I am warning against is to have a situation where everyone, each person finds their own solution because that becomes problematic. Like you see currently the Trade Union leaders are in jail here; the Secretary General and the President. And their crime according to Mugabe is that they made remarks during the May Day celebrations indicating that people were being killed and that's all. But I think there is very little that is happening from society to deal with that situation.

Violet: I would like to hear your thoughts about this run off that's going to take place within 90 days and also there are others who are talking about a Transitional Authority or a Government of National Unity, but before I go there I wanted to find out something about what you said just before the elections. It was reported that you said this is Morgan Tsvangirai's last chance to win an election and if he loses he should stand down. So would this run off be a referendum for Tsvangirai?

Dr. Madhuku: The whole electoral process has been a referendum on him because that is where the problem has been. You see the electoral environment is very uneasy and that was pointed out before the election, and obviously participating in an election of this nature was always risky. I think there was the surprise in the House of Assembly where the MDC or the opposition got more seats than the ruling party but parliament has never been an issue in this election. The issue in this election is the Presidential seat. Who becomes the President of Zimbabwe? That is the question and everyone in the streets knows that, which is why you didn't get any single celebration when the announcement came that there is no winner but Tsvangirai has more votes than Mugabe. People knew that they had not achieved what they wanted so NO celebrations. So this election still remains, I think it's a very big risk. The run off process would still be a situation where Mugabe wants to stop Tsvangirai becoming the President by undemocratic means by using an undemocratic electoral framework. We have seen it; the delay in announcement of results, compromising the position of ZEC. You know this thing of changing the goal post about the run off, beating up people and getting away with it and still calling it an election and this is where the problem is. So where we would not blame the MDC or Tsvangirai or anyone we must be correct that if the processes continues to be the same process we can't continue to elections; Mugabe versus Tsvangirai, Mugabe versus Tsvangirai, Mugabe versus Tsvangirai. I mean you can't continue to have a situation like that.

Violet: Based on the conditions right now and the hurdles that he has faced, if he does lose in the run off do you think that he should stand down as the MDC leader? Do you still stand by your comments?

Dr. Madhuku: I am sure he will do that. He has done a lot of work, he has done a lot of good work himself and I have no doubt that it will be very difficult once you get into another election again and Mugabe still cheats in that and then you cannot expect Tsvangirai to wait for another 5 years to go for another election.

Violet: So how significant are the conditions on the ground going to be on the outcome of the run-off

Dr. Madhuku: I don't think there are any miracles that can happen when an election is conducted in a one-sided manner and the ZANU PF regime is controlling the electoral machinery, everyone knows that. ZANU PF regime is determining every rule that applies in this election. The only thing that we know the MDC is doing is to put their candidate there. They currently can't campaign but they are just believing too much in some fate or that there is some possibility of divine intervention. You cannot expect in an election such as this and to have a result that they announce. I think that there are two possibilities, one possibility is to have a result which favours Tsvangirai which is never announced or a result that we are told it favors Mugabe. Those are the kind of things we will get.

We must emphasize that it is important before you get into an election, to make sure that the conditions for that election are such that you can call it an election. This one you cannot call it an election. I mean when you say run off, run off is an election; we are talking about an election. So you cannot call it an election under the current circumstances. For example ZANU PF knows the date of that election the MDC does not and they will pretend that they are waiting for ZEC but everyone knows that they know the date of the election.

Tomorrow there will be a meeting of the Central committee of ZANU PF, yesterday there was a meeting of ZAU PF Politburo and they are doing this. The reason why Mugabe never panicked and then even went so far as to announce that Tsvangirai is the winner of the first round is because the first round was simply a nomination process for the second round so that is what it amounts to. So really more people nominated Tsvangirai for the second election than Mugabe. That's what legally it is and politically even - it is also the same thing. It amounted to a nomination and then you start afresh. So they can't really panic and they obviously know that now they will not make certain mistakes about how their machinery is utilized to rig elections, so they will definitely rig the elections.

Violet: Given this situation that you have described do you think it is a good idea for the MDC to participate in the second round?

Dr. Madhuku: Well I think that you should ask me whether it was a good idea for the MDC to have participated in the first election; it was not a good idea. But then once they participated in the first election, they cannot be expected not to participate in the second election. The second election is the same election as the first one; it is a continuation of the same. So we should not separate those two questions and say was it wise to participate in the first; was it wise to participate in the second? I will only answer the question relating to was it wise to participate in the first one? It was not wise because the playing field was not even. Whatever the results that came out of an uneven playing field that did not change anything because we are going to a second, so now they have to participate in the second election because it is a continuation. They have raised hopes, the 47.9%, 48% of the people that voted for Tsvangirai believe that they will draw 2% or at least two point something percent from the other people. So they will force Tsvangirai to go in election and he shouldn't even debate that point, he should simply go all the way. He is already in it. It's like a person who is already on a conveyor belt, so they cannot do anything and once the flight has taken off and you can't drop off, it is a continuation. But then you could answer the question by saying it was unwise to fly in the first place.

Violet: Now Dr Madhuku other people were talking about a plan B that perhaps what is now needed in Zimbabwe is some kind of a coalition government. First of all, if there is further delay of the run off, is there need for a Transitional Authority in your view?

Dr. Madhuku: I don't think there is any need for that. We need to have a resolution of this matter of elections and thereafter we can talk of a Government of National Unity process. If you allow the MDC and ZANU PF just to sit there and then come up with an arrangement it will be very detrimental to the interests of the country. What this country needs is really a comprehensive solution. I think these politicians are trying to grab the space that is there. I mean once they get a Transitional Government what will be the content of that government, what will be the intentions, what will it be doing and so forth? It's a bit more problematic.

I think what we would rather have is a resolution one way or another; either Tsvangirai wins and becomes President or Mugabe remains in office and then we still insist on it if for example Tsvangirai was to be the President it's clear to us what we expect him to do. He must now dismantle the whole oppressive machinery of the State and have the transformation that explains his relationship with civic society at the moment. This is why the civic society says the people of Zimbabwe must vote for Tsvangirai and so forth. So that kind of result is clear.

Violet: How realistic is that exactly Dr. Madhuku, we do know how powerful Robert Mugabe and his ruling party is?

Dr. Madhuku: It's not realistic, it's not necessarily realistic. I was just going on. I was going to say that either we have that result or we have that other result where Mugabe remains in power and then we still mobilize our forces to push for reform and so on. A Government of National Unity before the end of the electoral process would give the two political parties a complete hold over society, which is not good.

Violet: That's what I actually wanted to find out that some have said that the MDC is very vulnerable at this stage even though it has won most of the parliamentary seats and it won the first round of the Presidential election, but that it is competing with a regime with deep roots and a strong state machinery on its side. So in the event that people do decide to go into a Government of National Unity. Do you think the MDC should accept?

Dr. Madhuku: I don't think they should accept that if they know why they were formed, if they know why they are in existence. The MDC is in existence to give the people of Zimbabwe an opportunity to restructure the current relations between the State and the people. To de-structure our whole way of life as a people - that's why the MDC is there, that's why we support them. If they decide to go into a Government of National Unity with ZANU PF - taking into account what some people are saying about stability and so on - that means the MDC would have along the line lost its founding reasons, I mean the founding objectives of MDC is not to grab power. A Government of National Unity is a power sharing arrangement and that means the MDC just wants power and that is not why it was formed. So they shouldn't agree. If they are still on the basis of why they were formed.

Violet: What about the military that has supported Mugabe from the beginning? Do you see the military bosses being part of any Government National Unity and also work to protect Mr Tsvangirai, a man that they have vilified from the very beginning? Is it really possible that the military would work with Mr Tsvangirai?

Dr. Madhuku: I don't think so, I think that can only be asked if the political authorities were to announce that Tsvangirai has won and that power has been handed to him and that's when you can ask whether the military will be supporting him. But that result might never arise because the military at the moment - those top brass of the military - are against that position. We are told that they are the ones who are, currently, supervising this victimization and violence that is being committed against the people. That scenario, we should not really talk about it, I think we should talk about a scenario where if power were to be handed to Tsvangirai I think that issue of the military will became irrelevant. But the sole question is would power ever be handed to Tsvangirai by this regime through just a mere election.

Violet: How can the MDC secure this victory that they have won so far in the first stage, even in a GNU?

Dr. Madhuku: I don't know how a Government of National Unity is going to be structured. My understanding is that it's a government that has elements from both ZANU PF and MDC- then in that case I don't think that MDC can be clear to claim victory if they have that coalition arrangement. But, if for example they were to win the election, the Presidential election, and then invite some members of ZANU to join their government, then that would be an MDC government really but working with some elements of ZANU because you would invite them on the basis of what you think they can contribute. That's a different arrangement from the Government of National Unity.

Violet: Does the Government of National Unity disregard the issue of Human Rights?

Dr. Madhuku: I don't see how ZANU PF depending on what position it has; in a Government of National Unity - as a junior partner or senior partner - would even change the way it is operating. In fact I think that the Government of National Unity that is an agreement between the two parties will not change much in terms of the political culture in the country.

Violet: I know we are speculating on this because it is not clear what is going to happen, but if there is a need of a Government of National Unity what role will opposition leaders like Simba Makoni and Arthur Mutambara have in your view and even the civic society?

Dr. Madhuku: My understanding is that those leaders, Arthur Mutambara and Simba Makoni, are the ones that are pushing for a Government of National Unity because they would have some space there. They cannot easily get space in a winner take all situation because they lost heavily in the last election. They were almost reduced to almost not relevant in the post election process now. The only reason why they are relevant is that there is no winner for the Presidential election and so there is this talk about the Government of National Unity. I even heard that some people wanted Makoni to be the President of the Government of National Unity. So those discussions will give those leaders space but I don't think they have much relevance, I mean they don't seem to be commanding much political support that can stop ZANU PF and MDC getting some arrangement of sorts.

Violet: And the civic society?

Dr. Madhuku: The civic society must not have any role in the Government of National Unity because they are not government. The civic society people must be there to deal with the guiding rights of people and so on, in the course of a functioning government. Keeping check of the government you know all those things.

Violet: The reason I was asking about civic society is that people like Dr Simba Makoni have stated in the past that what is now needed in the country is some sort of a Transitional Authority that should encompass all stake holders including those from the civic society.

Dr. Madhuku: That would be useful but Simba Makoni has no political clout to have his ideas implemented. There are so many people with good ideas, but I mean you can have your good ideas. Why should Simba Makoni's ideas be taken if for example he has not won his politics to get to that point? He must get the political support for that. His ideas make sense but they can't be implemented on the basis that he is not a political authority.

Violet: I have two final questions to ask you Dr Madhuku. The first one is Morgan Tsvangirai has said he doesn't want President Thabo Mbeki as the middleman on Zimbabwe anymore as he no longer has confidence in Mbeki's mediation. Now as civic society who in Africa or the international community do you think can help to bring confidence back to the mediation table?

Dr. Madhuku: Well I don't think I should answer that element. I think I should first comment on the fact that it is not wise to unnecessarily blame Mbeki for the problems in the country because Mbeki is just the President of South Africa and he can only do certain things not other things. I think he was playing his mediation role. Our only problem for example this side with Mbeki's mediation was that he focused on just ZANU PF and MDC but we never said Mbeki must stop mediation. We actually appealed to him to widen his mediation if possible.

So Zimbabweans should not be so ungrateful to start picking and choosing people saying ok we will want so and so to mediate and not so and so. I mean why, we should not do that. I think that can only be done as I said earlier on we should do our struggle here and make sure we do a lot on the ground in Zimbabwe and then we should welcome efforts by any foreign people that would want to assist us. It's very unfair to start saying no Mwanawasa is bad or is good, Mbeki is better or he is worse and so on. I think that is not the way. We should not have this victim psychosis where we just see ourselves as victims who the world must look upon us. We are not the only people in the world.

So I think it is not right to criticize Mbeki on the basis of saying somebody else will do better. I think it should be criticized on the basis of some of the tactics that he has used, that would make sense. But remember also that Mbeki is said to have been appointed by SADC and that is the intellectual argument that has been given which makes sense. He was appointed by SADC so you are not criticizing Mbeki per say. It's not an Mbeki mediation but a SADC mediation, so you would rather direct the focus to SADC.

Violet: It is interesting to hear your comments about this vis-à-vis what the MDC have been saying about Thabo Mbeki. I was just wondering have you had a chance to talk to Mr Tsvangirai or some of the MDC leaders to find out what the wayforward is?

Dr. Madhuku: You must remember that these top leaders have been out of the country for the past four weeks so we have not had any contacts with them. So most of the statements we hear about their position on Mbeki or position on run off and so on are statements we read in the media. There has been some dislocation a bit from the elections. We were very close just up to 4, 5 days after the elections but thereafter when there was a lot of travelling around, people were not in touch. But we have our own views we don't necessarily have to say their views are wrong we can express our own. They are the ones who are leading the party and they might know better and certainly I think if you speak to ordinary Zimbabweans they might feel very frustrated by Mbeki but when you talk to them more closely common sense prevails. Mbeki is not supposed to be the one who solves our problems. We must solve our own problems here and that where Mbeki can help he can help. In any case he will be leaving office in April and if our crisis is not fairly looked at now by ourselves, we would be blaming the next South African President and then what will the world say about us, because I have no doubt that the next person who takes over from Mbeki will not just jump onto the ship and drag Mugabe out and then take Tsvangirai or somebody else to be President of Zimbabwe. That's not going to happen. We must, I think appreciate the efforts of those people knowing their limitations being not Zimbabweans themselves. The solution to our struggle in Zimbabwe is to mobilize Zimbabweans, to create as much political heat as possible here and then in that context any mediator who will come would find it easier to do that.

The other danger with blaming Mbeki the way it has been done is that it plays into the propaganda machinery of ZANU PF where you get Mbeki being blamed but Gordon Brown is not blamed and he continues to say things on Zimbabwe and so on. I think it will play into the propaganda of the government and people will be beaten up in the rural areas; 'You are supporting puppets look at what they are doing to the rest of the Africa '. I think they should play differently.; we don't agree that you should condemn Mbeki but you can criticize him if you believe that he is not doing the right thing.

Violet: Finally Dr. Madhuku where does the issue of the constitution stand now?

Dr. Madhuku: Yeah excellent. That is the question I thought you were going to ask in the first instance and so on. That is the issue that is at the centre of my own focus. I think that all what has happened demonstrates the need for Zimbabweans to engage and force a process of reform here which gets a new constitution the day after elections. And I think that some people don't understand how it happens. A reform process changes the mind set. If we fight Mugabe over the processes and then win and obviously when we get to an election which is now a result of that process, we will be able to make more progress. Take the example of who should be the President of Zimbabwe; What happens to a person who has not gone to war for example and we debate it in a constitution reform process; You need liberation credentials to become President. If in a constitutional reform process Zimbabweans say NO, then that would mean that in any election that is fought in the contexts of a new constitution - which you yourself as Zimbabweans have made - no politician will stand on a platform and say don't vote for so and so because he did not go to war, if we know that we put in our constitution as Zimbabweans that war records are not part of the credentials for being President.

So there are so many things that come into being. As ZEC which knows that it is a result of a people driven process would actually play an independent role not a ZEC which believes that it owes its existence to President Mugabe. These are things that people must take into account. So I think whatever the outcome of elections we will be back in trying to convince Zimbabweans to prioritize the making of a new constitution. But currently we cannot do much until this election dispute is resolved, we can not. At the moment we simply urge Zimbabweans to support the opposition in any run off and then if Mugabe rigs it as we expect him to do, we then obviously say look I think now is time to consider this - an election must take place under a new constitution.

Violet: Thank you very much Dr. Lovemore Madhuku

Dr. Madhuku: Ok thank you.

Comments and feedback can be emailed to violet@swradioafrica.com

Please credit www.kubatana.net if you make use of material from this website. This work is licensed under a Creative Commons License unless stated otherwise.

TOP