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Behind the headlines talks to Raymond Majongwe - SW Radio Africa
Short Wave Radio Africa
June 02, 2005

Lance Guma talks to Raymond Majongwe of the Progressive Teachers' Union of Zimbabwe (PTUZ) on Mass Action. Who leads who?

Zimbabwe has reached boiling point. Everyone who is anybody now wants action but those with the mandate to do so, the MDC are sitting on the fence and holding press conference after press conference. Residents in the urban areas are having to endure the current operation ‘Murambatsvina’ by the police as homes are destroyed and people’s livelihoods go up in smoke. The MDC says people must mobilize themselves, the people on the other hand say the MDC must mobilize them. Who should be mobilizing who? Behind the headlines seeks to break the stalemate. I have as my guest this week is Raymond Majongwe, who is the Secretary General of the Progressive Teachers Union (PTUZ).

Lance: Welcome Mr. Majongwe. Now, when it comes to mass action, who should be leading who?

Raymond Majongwe: That one is not debatable. Apparently, if there is a group of citizens who organise themselves into a political entity and call themselves a political party, they should have the mandate to at least inform, to at least advise, to at least take action and to lead and prosecute an action without fear or favour. And I am convinced if there is anybody who thinks that mass action in Zimbabwe is going to be done through remote control and people are not going to put a face to their voice, then the whole thing is futile. The MDC has to lead the mass action. But then, you have to go and look at the implications of this particular point. Do they have the temerity to do it?

Lance: Now, the MDC say they have to watch what they say incase they get arrested. But, is that not the problem? Jenni Williams from WOZA, Lovemore Madhuku from the NCA, you yourself have been arrested in the past. It seems you have a willingness to get arrested, and you have a willingness to speak your minds out. The party with the wider constituency seems to want to avoid this level of sacrifice.  

Raymond Majongwe: I have no doubt that many a time I was trying to convince a few of my friends to say the MDC as a political entity, if there is any person in this country who has the hope of seeing another government in this country, it is not going to be MDC. Because, I will tell you, if you look at the whole leadership of the MDC, the people there are just people who are trying to get to parliament, get a good living out of it and foresake the people. I am convinced, beyond any shadow of a doubt that the MDC leadership is not the type of leadership that is going to liberate this country from ZANU PF. Let me qualify further, the MDC of 1999/ 2000 when Tsvangirai said 'Robert Mugabe must go out peacefully or be removed violently', that was the MDC that would have won the election or would have undertaken any action. Not this MDC that wants to go to court 10 days after the people have been evacuated and others are already in Malawi, 10 days after people have been sleeping on the tarmac, ten days after people's livelihoods have been destroyed. A party that believes that going to court is the only way to go to State House or to Parliament. A party that believes that technocrats can make political decisions. I am honestly convinced that the MDC does not have the right political leadership for this country.

Lance: But what has changed? If the MDC were as radical as you are saying, what has changed over the last couple of years?

Raymond Majongwe: There are a lot of things that happened. If you look at how Mugabe rose to become the leader of ZANU (PF). These are people who were arrested, they were tortured, but they re-grouped, they re-organised, they went back to the drawing board; they kept on their focus. And these are people who time in, time out, did not waver on what they wanted. They simply said the enemy is so-and-so, the enemy is Ian Smith, the system has to be overthrown, and they fought hard to overthrow that system. But now, if you look at the MDC, the people in the MDC are there out of convenience. It's too loose a coalition, it's too loose a movement to have a common identity. And, I'm honestly convinced that the real crisis in the MDC is that people think that they will walk into parliament, they will walk into State House the American style. This is Africa. People have to be ready to sacrifice because Mugabe will turn around and say 'you will not go into Parliament and into State House through the courts'. Mugabe went into parliament through the bush, and he made it clear, and I will quote Robert Mugabe in 1980 when he said 'we have used the bullet to get the ballot, and we will use the bullet to defend the ballot'. The situation on the ground is such that ZANU (PF) is rearing to go.

Lance: Let's break this down. It might sound like a silly question, but certainly we need to break it down I think. What is mass action?

Raymond Majongwe: Mass action as far as I'm concerned, is action undertaken by citizens of a particular country or constituent members of a particular society, making clear their demands that they are either in support of a position or they are opposed to that particular position. But, however, never in the world has there been a spontaneous uprising without a leader, because, ultimately there has to be a face for a force to get direction . Because, ultimately if there is going to be a mass action without an identity and a face, there is going to anarchy and chaos, and this is what has always been the scenario. If you look at many of the revolotions that tried and failed it is because they did not have viable, vibrant, visionary leadership. If you look at the 1848 Revolotion and I will quote the historian AJP Taylor, he said 'it was a time when history was supposed to turn, but it refused to turn because leadership did not come forth'. So, I am honestly convinced that if we have a leader who wants to be identified with a particular cause, then anything and everything will be done.

Lance: What are the major impediments to mobilising mass action for the MDC?

Raymond Majongwe: As far as I'm concerned, to start off with, they lack the leadership acumen to do it. If we have time then I will try and analyse what I mean by that. To start off with, I will tell you that it's a question of leadership, it's a question of preparedness, it's a question of saying we need people who are going to come up with an agenda; put it there and make people rally behind it. I will tell you that the MDC has almost become like us. They are issuing press statements and holding press conferences. Meaningless those conferences to say the least. Ultimately, as far as I am concerned, there are so many things. The people were moved, the people were beaten, their property was destroyed; people lost valuable property, everybody is running around and up to now the MDC has not said anything.

They have only held press conferences; meaningless press conferences as far as I'm concerned, because they are not saying anything. You can't hold press conferences and say 'the people must organise themselves'. Which people? This is why these people voted for the MDC to become a viable alternative. Now, if you are not going to be able to do anything they are worse off. This is why I personally did not gamble there and put my life in the MDC. I had this suspicion that the people did not have that particular capacity to deliver, because if anybody is going to speak the language of ZANU (PF) those people have to go to the left of ZANU (PF), those people have to speak about land, those people have to speak about jobs. Those people should not focus and concentrate on what South Africa is going to say. What is South Africa as far as our problem is concerned? They are only just but part of the way out, but we should not concentrate on Thabo Mbeki and the ANC, they are irrelevant. If there is anybody who is going to be doing something, that person has to be in Zimbabwe, leading the Zimbabweans and talking the Zimbabwean language, full stop.

Lance: Munyaradzi Gwisai believes that the MDC should go back to its student and worker roots; they should be mobilising in the colleges and the factories instead of going through the motions in the courts and in parliament as they are currently doing. Is this a fair analysis ?

Raymond Majongwe: It's not only a fair analysis, that is the honest interpretation of what one would be seeing. If people are going to look at it you have to say we have to go back to the drawing board; that is, if the drawing board is still there. And this is why I have honestly held meetings with the MDC, and I have not minced my words. I have said, they, the MDC has to be reborn if they are going to be relevant to this particular problem. Or they risk a new political there, and that likelihood is very much there, its very present in this country, because there are people who have lost not only faith but they are honestly becoming continuously disillusioned by how the MDC has held its own politics. Apparently the real cause and the real problem is this: how come and why, how does one explain that the MDC thinks the lawyers and the courts in this country, at one point they are saying that the courts have been discredited, they are not objective but they want to go to the same courts for recourse! I am honestly convinced that is a serious contradiction on the part of the MDC.

ZANU (PF) as a political entity did not want to entertain any chance when they were fighting and prosecuting the guerilla war, they did not want to go and say 'let's go and negotiate with Smith'. They said 'we don't negotiate until the people are ripe and ready for negotiation'. How else would you expect a party not to go back to it's origin and re-define its core? Because I will honestly tell you, the whole agenda of the MDC has been hijacked. There are people who have come in, the intellectuals; an intellectual clique has come into the MDC and they want to do their thing their own way. And, I obviously see ZANU (PF) directly involved in this process. They are obviously there confusing the MDC but it is basically because the MDC itself is seriously confused. But, nonetheless I am honestly convinced that time for their re-birth is still there. But, if they are not going to do so, it's to their peril, because another political party which is going to be more relevant, more vibrant and more militant. We need a militant political party in this country. Africa will not be run by a political party that go into cabinet or government through the courts. Never!

Lance: Mike Davies of the Combined Harare Residents Association believes that the MDC are actually now part of the problem as they are participating in the flawed parliamentary process. He says by failing to act they have abdicated their leadership role. Would you agree it's this bad that they are now actually part of the problem?

Raymond Majongwe: I will tell you, and I will repeat. There are only two voices that came out clear just before the parliamentary elections of 31 March; it was Lovemore Madhuku and myself. We went clear; I actually held a meeting with the MDC leadership at a public forum, and we told them in no uncertain terms that participating in these elections was ultimately going to legitimise ZANU (PF) rule and ultimately keep MDC out of the whole process, because there are people who honestly think that they are in parliament to make money, they are in parliament to go through cosmetic processes of getting a few tit bits on their side. But, ultimately, I will tell you, the very enemies of democracy in this country are now the MDC and a few others. They actually are now part of the problem, and I don't mince my words. As far as I'm concerned, Morgan Tsvangirai and his party have not only failed to garner support around the fundamentals in the country, but they have also failed to take heed. I will tell you, the leadership, when the people in the country were saying 'don't participate in the election', they said they were going to listen to what the people were saying. But now, the leadership is now making a decision to say they cannot do anything when the same people whom they said they consulted before 31 March are saying 'go into action'. These are just a bunch of cowards, opportunists who deliberately have forgotten that when they were going up they were being pushed by others, and they will be coming down very soon.

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