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'Behind the Headlines' interviews Nelson Chamisa & Daniel Molokele
SW Radio Africa
May 09, 2005

This is Lance Guma, come join me as we go behind the headlines. A programme that looks into the issues and individuals dominating the news. Where others scratch the surface, we dig deeper to bring you the full story every Thursday on SW Radio Africa, Zimbabwe's independent voice.

Seventeen students at the Midlands State University were suspended by the Vice Chancellor for allegedly making MDC slogans during a student meeting. Six students were arrested and eleven sought by the police over an alleged illegal meeting that discussed several student issues. The following day, students were released without charge after spending the night in cells only to be greeted with suspension letters. The suspension covers both the six arrested and eleven who are on the run. The University is bracing for Students' Representative Council elections in a few weeks. Police and University authorities allege the students were videotaped during a strategic planning meeting for candidates, and aired sentiments with a bias towards the MDC. Its important to note that the bulk of the victimised students are candidates in these elections, they also served as polling agents for MDC candidate for Gweru Rural, Renson Gasela.

It is thought ZANU PF wants to block the possibility of a student union led by MDC sympathisers, and is eager to plant their own puppets; hence the suspensions. It is clear from the above that student activism is an integral part of Zimbabwean politics. On the line with me is MDC Youth Chairman, Nelson Chamisa, a former student leader himself, and Daniel Molokele also a former student leader. I will start with you, Chamisa. Why does ZANU PF have an interest in SRC elections, like the Midlands State University ones?

Nelson Chamisa: I think in their opinion, that student activism is another front for activism, particularly looking at the fact that you have people like Daniel Molokele, who is on the phone, myself, the likes of Charlton Hwende, the likes of Brian Kagoro, the Tendai Biti's the Enoch Chikweche's, the Munyaradzi Gwisai's of this world, who are themselves, direct products of student activism. So what they want to do is to make sure that at least they cut short the conveyer belt which they allege has been responsible for churning out people who they think are anti-government, and who are, indeed, anti-establishment. So it is a deliberate strategy to try and nip in the bud what they perceive to be the problem on the political landscape.

Lance: Daniel, was this always the case during your time at University?

Daniel Molokela: As you might know Lance up to about 1988 the student movement, especially at the University of Zimbabwe, used to be very supportive of ZANU PF. But after 1988, well we had the demonstrations and Willowvale scandal, when students under the leadership of people like Arthur Mutambara, they took a stance. Since 1988 we have had the UZ Amendment Act amongst other laws where government has tried its best to play down the role of students on the national agenda, because, at this moment in time most generations of students' movements since then have always been anti-government and have spoken vocally against government. So there's always been an attempt by government. Even, when I was at the Universtity of Zimbabwe in my own SRC, there was a member of CIO, Luke Chapinga, who worked with ZANU PF inside the SRC. So they have always tried to have people they support and sponsor to represent their interests in student movements.

Lance: Chamisa, is there a tussle then between ZANU PF and the MDC for control of students unions?

Nelson Chamisa: I wouldn't say that its a tussle for control of students unions. An unfortunate development on the political scene here in Zimbabwe is that once you realise that genuine issues being raised by students; things like pay-outs, things like autonomy of tertiary institutions, things like academic freedom, things like making sure that at least there is proper and effective administration of student affairs at various institutes of higher learning, are issues which are legitimate and are issues which are very, very relevant to most of the students. And these issues are evidently located in the politics of the MDC, so you end up having what you would call a tussle for the control of student leadership in institutions of higher learning. Yet it is just ZANU PF. They have realised that they are out of touch with reality, they are out of touch with the demands and needs of students, to the extent that what they now want to do is to suppress what they consider to be legitimate cases of discontent from the student body.

Lance: Daniel, people often talk nostalgically about the days of student leaders like Arthur Mutambara, the Gwisaii's and Chinyoka's. Are the comparisons relevant given the environment we now have in Zimbabwe?

Daniel Molokele: They are very relevant because institutionally speaking, the student movement in Zimbabwe is not as powerfully organised as it used to be. So it's important to use some form of standard, historical reference to inspire the current generation. But not withstanding that, there has been some move by Government, using the law, using Vice Chancellors and College Principals to undermine the potential of student leadership even at such a primitive level as a pre election period like the case at Midlands State University, where before you are even elected into the SRC you are given a suspension letter. That is a desperate attempt to ensure that there is no regeneration of such powerful student leaders. So it's important that we always tell the younger generation of students, or student movements or student leaders, to refer to the past so they can learn from the leadership we have had in the past and get inspiration from it.

Lance: Chamisa if I may ask you the same question. Ever since you left the Harare Polytechnic, no one has ever heard of who took over and who the student leader there is. It's just all quiet. What's happening?

Nelson Chamisa: The unfortunate thing is that that kind of regeneration Daniel is talking about has not also been possible from among the students. I think the regime has managed to overtake progressive forces in making sure that at least we have an adequate strategy to try and thwart all antics of dictatorship, all strategies of oppression. So I think it has been very tragic in the sense that we have not had innovative leadership and tactics to that ensure that at least we overwhelm tactics by ZANU PF. But I must say that I think that with what is happening; with the re-definition of our struggle on the Zimbabwe landscape, we are likely to see maybe students coming forward, with new strategies. And it requires all those who have been in student leadership before to also give some sense of inspiration and also to continue to guide in terms of ideas, regeneration of ideas and making sure that those guys and making sure that these young guys are given that impetus they need to confront this dictatorship.

Lance: Now still with you Chamisa, does the student movement still have influence in the MDC? Because I hear people are saying, you know, they are making allegations, that students are being marginalised within the opposition. Is that true?

Nelson Chamisa: It depends from what point of view you are saying that marginalisation in politics is always a reality. But I would like to say that that's why we are in politics; to make sure that at least we are at the centre of decision making and we are not locked out of the premises of administration, of governance of apparatus that are responsible for making decisions in various institutions. In the MDC our major preoccupation is to fight this dictatorship and in the process of fighting this dictatorship obviously what we want to see is the prominence and visibility of students, in participation and I think that will continue to the struggle and that's what we are currently engaged in. Those allegations will always surface and I wouldn't say that they are very remote. They are real but I think that's why we are there; to make sure that political space is rightfully given to the deserving student leadership and student activists.

Lance: Daniel Molokela, you have been active in mobilising people in the Diaspora. But I'm sure you'd be the first to admit that people who live outside Zimbabwe in countries that allow demonstrations are not interested in protest. And yet they are quick to criticise people back home for not rising up against Mugabe. Why is that?

Daniel Molokela: My experience with South Africa is that it's not so much in whether the people here in South Africa are not interested in protest, but in so much in terms of strategic thinking, in terms of planning. Because we have managed to come up with some demonstrations which have been better than the previous ones. Right now we have identified the issue of information and media as a key issue in terms of mobilisation, because access to information is very key in terms of preparing people. You have to give people due notice so that they take the time off from work and so on, a lot of people are not officially recognised Zimbabweans because they've got South African ID's. So you need to ensure that you work hard on those preliminary issues before you just walk out. Because in previous times, there have been these spontaneous demonstrations with weak organisational skills and at the end of the day a lot of people have not been able to participate, and some have watched the news in the evening only to learn that Zimbabweans were demonstrating. So its very important also to look at the institutional capacity of the movement in the Diaspora. At this moment I'm pleased to say that CSO's / NGO's have become so mobilised and institutionalised and they network to such an extent that they are beginning to come up with better strategies. We hope in the near future we will have more Zimbabweans coming out into this protest. I need to emphasise that they shouldn't be regular protest but they should be occasional well timed protests. Like a day when Mugabe is coming to South Africa, it could be a good occasion to go to the Johannesburg International Airport or to the venue of the conference and protest there, but not always because a lot of people are afraid of being victimised at work or where they are staying because if they are identified as foreigners there is a lot to be paid. There's a big price, so it's very important that we acknowledge that. In other countries it's still difficult, for instance Namibia, Botswana where there's a high Zimbabwean population, they still don't have institutions. We in South Africa we are trying to identify people there and to come up with institutions that can then mobilise Zimbabweans.

Lance: Chamisa, still on that point. How do you feel about the level of support you are getting from Zimbabweans outside as the MDC?

Nelson Chamisa: I think the support has been there, it has been visible and we appreciate as Zimbabweans at home. I think our international front, we still feel as if there is room for improvement, particularly in South Africa and also in the UK and USA where there is still some space to legitimately express themselves and to express their disenchantment over what is happening in Zimbabwe. But I must say that I think what is also lacking is proper co-ordination between the structures of the MDC and also progressive forces in the Diaspora together with our party here at home. I think that's an area where we need to correct and to make sure that at least we correct so that we co-ordinate and ensure there is a dynamic engagement of all the progressive forces to realign towards changing this country.

Lance: Still with you Chamisa. When you think of mass action and demonstration you think of workers and students, they are clearly in the majority in the urban set up. Is it difficult to combine these two constituencies and have them put pressure on Mugabe as has happened in the past?

Nelson Chamisa: It's not difficult, but I think and I must admit that for the past five years there has been fragmentation of focus. We have not been focused on one key objective of making sure that at least we have a radical approach. We had a very serious confrontational approach to dealing with this dictatorship. But I think what is now clearly emerging is that there is need for a common platform. There is need for a democratic front. Where all the progressive forces unite with a common vision to build a Zimbabwe, the Zimbabwe we want. That is only possible with a unity of purpose, with the solidarity that is important especially when we close our ranks. Like you rightly put across that students, workers - if we unite, including Mugabe and all his forces are going to be able to fight or to kill an idea whose time has come.

Lance: In concluding the programme Daniel, I would just like to ask, when you are asked to think about student leaders who are still doing something in the struggle, you think of Chamisa, you think of yourself, Daniel, you think of Tendai Biti, Job Sikhala. Where are the others? The last I heard Arthur Mutambara was doing business in South Africa. Where is everyone else?

Daniel Molakela: I think it's not true to say that the majority of the former student leaders are not visible, because many of them are now involved in institutions, in NGO's, some are in business as you rightly pointed out, so they may not necessarily be vocal in terms of public issues but they will be working at the back and attending conferences and giving advice here and there. But its very crucial to also appreciate the fact that the majority of former student leaders, at this moment in time, we don't really know their political stand. Some are still supportive of ZANU PF, some are supporting MDC but the honest truth is that most of them still have to decide their role in terms of political party politics even though they are still involved in other areas like the business sector, like CSO's, the NGO's and so on. So we still expect a lot from them and I anticipate in the future we will see more of the people like Arthur Mutambara getting involved in party politics and we expect a contribution from them. I expect that the majority of them will not disappear into thin air.

Lance: Chamisa, in also concluding the programme, what are your final thoughts and what is your message to all the youth who are listening to this radio station as we broadcast into Zimbabwe. What are your thoughts to them?

Nelson Chamisa: Yes, the future belongs to us. Zimbabwe today belongs to us, it is our responsibility to make sure that at whatever price, at whatever cost, we have to fight for democratisation. The cost of doing nothing far exceeds the cost of doing something. We have to do something. We have to fight, we have to suffer. No matter Mugabe tries to arrest people, the arrests are not going to change the quest for change, the quest for democracy, the quest for a prosperous Zimbabwe. That is what we have to focus on. And we have to know that Mugabe is history. What we have to build is a new Zimbabwe where every Zimbabwean has got the freedom and the right to express themselves.

Lance: Daniel, I have 15 seconds left, your final thoughts?

Daniel Molokele: my thoughts are to say that no one should give up on Zimbabwe, especially the young people, especially the age group which is between 18 and 45 and so on. Because we know that the majority of the leaders in ZANU PF today have passed their 'sell by' date like Robert Mugabe. So we still have an opportunity to rebuild Zimbabwe, so another Zimbabwe is possible. Let's not give up but let's reorganise ourselves and play a key role in the democratisation process. It's possible to have a new Zimbabwe.

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